Many atheists employ the concept of divine hiddenness to argue against God’s existence. If God exists, they argue, why is His existence not more obvious?
I have blogged on this issue previously (here and here), so I won’t rehearse the arguments again. Instead, I’ll simply assert that I do not accept the claim that God’s’ existence is not obvious enough. I think there is good evidence for God’s existence, and that God only appears to be hidden because we have not looked for Him with an open mind and heart.
I suggest that Knowledge of God’s existence is similar to looking at a “Where’s Waldo?” picture. Waldo’s image is not hidden, but in plain sight for all to see. And yet, not everyone sees him. Some do not see him because they never try. Others do not find him because they give up after only searching for a few moments. But if one truly wants to find Waldo, and diligently seeks after him, they will find him. And once they do, his presence on the page will be obvious at every subsequent viewing.
In a similar fashion, God is always in plain sight. He has not hidden Himself. He has revealed Himself through the general revelation of creation and conscience, and the specific revelation of Jesus Christ and the Bible. While His existence may not be obvious to us at first glace, He can be found if we look for Him. And yet we don’t always see Him because we aren’t always looking for Him – often because we don’t want to find Him. But if we set ourselves to the task, He will be found, and when He is, His presence will become obvious and we’ll wonder how we failed to see Him so many times before.
Thinking to Believe 
February 27, 2013 at 1:05 pm
” Instead, I’ll simply assert that I do not accept the claim that God’s’ existence is not obvious enough.”
Well then, the majority of the planet disagrees with you, because they don’t think that the existence of the specific god you believe in is obvious at all.
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February 27, 2013 at 1:10 pm
An awareness that God exists, and an understanding of His precise nature and identity are two different issues. The majority of the planet acknowledges the existence of a supernatural being(s), even if they disagree about what that being(s) is like. Indeed, the very Biblical passages that teach that knowledge of God’s existence is universal also teach that men suppress that knowledge so that they can serve gods of their own making. So it’s not as if the point you raise surprises Christians. Rather, we expect it.
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February 27, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Supernaturalcalifragilisticexpialidocious shows the extent of superstition and the reptile beliefs of stoneage man, yet uncivilized.
1st: If there was a God it would be self evident;
2nd: Religions would not have to proselytize; and,
3rd: There would not be a fractured human race, each faction promoting their God Brand and Messenger and making extravagant claims of miracles, Why would anyone presume to think that a Creator needs to be defended by the Creature? Ego created Religion, Church, Prophet and God. The audacity of arrogant clergy perpetuate hoax, myth & magic as true creations.
The various caricatures of God is a matter of culture, the belief, a matter of supernaturalism but believing in something no matter how many or how few does not make it true. You could
One believes there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and youngsters search the nooks and crannies “believing” there’s leprechaun. Just because man builds the barn does not mean there is a pony inside. Children eventually grow up but childhood fantasies remain.
God is a metaphor for Good/Credit; that’s all there is; that’s all she wrote.
But what you’ve got to realize is that believing a thing, no matter how strongly, doesn’t necessarily make it real. I mean you could be hypnotized into believing that you’re a chicken but you can’t reasonable expect other people to share that belief, at least until they see a few eggs. And that’s the bottom line here. Evidence. If you show me a few eggs then I will believe that you are a chicken. Or a christian or a muslim or whatever the heck you think you are. But until then please, don’t tell me, not to mock your beliefs. That’s like telling me not to laugh at your toupee;
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March 1, 2013 at 5:54 am
I’ll offer another observation about the analogy, here. Notice that Waldo’s shirt has a distinct red/white-stripe pattern. If you study any “Where’s Waldo?” scene, you’ll find that same red/white-stripe pattern mimicked on many different people and objects throughout the scene. It tends to catch the viewer’s eye, causing him to believe he’s found Waldo when he actually has not. Similarly, there are many different false representations of God in the world, which lead people to believe they’ve found the real God but have only been fooled into believing in a counterfeit. Just as, in any “Where’s Waldo?” scene there is only one real Waldo, in real life there is only one real, true, fully-revealed God, no matter the countless counterfeits.
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March 1, 2013 at 6:53 am
” in real life there is only one real, true, fully-revealed God, no matter the countless counterfeits.”
And that real God is Money. The supernatural gods of men never existed and never will exist no matter how many ghosts are tried to be found in paranormal TV shows…uh uh….
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March 6, 2013 at 9:56 am
To leonardoTheGreater,
I am amazed you keep posting here !! But I think it’s great.
Your strong opposition to a belief in God shows that you want to know the Truth. Nobody is going to argue with you about all of the fake prophets and false gods because there are many imposters and liars out there.
The question is, are you wise enough to figure it out ? And no, your god of money is not the answer, it’s just one more false god that apparently you have fallen for. I can’t believe that a person of your extraordinary intellect and writing ability cannot figure this thing out ! It is so obvious even a child can understand it.
You spoke of “evidence”. What type of evidence will convince you ? A miracle ? I don’t think so, you’ll find some way to explain it away. Instead, is you were wise like a god, you would ask yourself, “If there is a God, does he owe me a miracle” ? I don’t know if you have little children, but as a father would you feel the need to explain everything to a little child or would you just tell the child what to do and expect him to obey you ?
Mr. Leonardo, if you want to answer the big questions, you have to change your perspective and approach.
I have a link of a person who had a remarkable near death experience. She has a book available as well. Choose to believe what you want, and if you finally decide that you’re out, be sure there was no evidence that slipped under the radar………..
http://drmaryneal.com/
Naz
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March 6, 2013 at 11:04 am
Naz:
Near death experiences do not prove god anymore than the person who escaped the 911 massacre and later exclaimed he was certain that God lead him to safety. What the person is really saying is that the 3000 people who died were so god fortunate and god did not lead them to safety but saved him only and then claim that god works in mysterious ways. Total nonsense.
All claims of miracles have natural explanations like the staff of Moses when he threw it to the floor that turned into a squirming snake. a few verses later the regular court magicians mastered the same technique and performed the same “magic” miracle in the King’s court.
Any person who accepts that the physical laws of the universe are suspended to accommodate religious claims of miracles are suffering from mental ludicrity or ingrained religious insanity.
Did the angel of the Lord guide the Exodus by light at night and smoke by day so the procession proceeded 24/7 by a miracle? Or did Moses simply placed a hundred muscled soldiers at the head of the procession with torches to light up the head of the parade at night by the light of torch fire and the smoke from the burning of the torch fires that rose during the day for visible cues to follow?
As a kid I performed the burning bush miracle by putting lighter fluid on my hand and igniting it. It burned with flaming combustion and the amazing thing was that after the flames extinguished when the fuel was spent, my hand was not consumed just like the burning bush was not consumed, WOW!
Most of the miracles are as easily explained and the bible is so easily understood in the context of logic, symbolism, saying of the day. How often did we kids describe a speeding car or a group of bike riders being taken out of sight in a cloud of dust from the dry dirt roads we grew up on. How many cowboy movies did we see where the cowboy on horseback disappeared in a cloud? So when I read the ascension when Jesus was taken from their sight as:
“Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.”
“After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.”
“As they watched, he was taken up and disappeared in a cloud.”
“When he had said these words he was lifted up before their eyes till a cloud hid him from their sight.”
I can easily understand how the entourage of horses and donkeys and wagons kicked up a huge cloud of dry dirt as it disappeared from sight.
The phrases of “disappeared in a cloud”, “all you could see was a cloud”, just a cloud was left similar to he was gone like a “bat out of hell” or the nice version “like a bat out of a bell”.
It is true that I WILL find a way to explain away miracles with reasonable understanding, just as religious others will explain events that take a little reasoned thought as miracles. But I do not condemn myself for what I do and therefore I am blessed because of that. For that same reason I clearly understand the Number, Name and Mark of the beast in Revelation without looking for Davinci codes or numerology codes; it is so simple few Christians understand 666; I have met none actually. It is why Christians do not understand the curse of Canaan that Ham caused by what he did; I have never met a Christian who knew that and read about only ONE who did!
Understanding the bible gives me the clear reality that all Gods were the invention of men and all religion derives from a person.
Even the great man Jesus said: How can you do what’s right (or know what is right) when you look to others for approval and neglect the true approval that comes from the spirit brain between your ears! I’m paraphrasing of course.
I haven’t fallen for the God of Money, I simply recognize that that is the only God on earth that men are felled by, when it is at the top of his forehead(mindset), when it is his “right-hand might”(Mark in his forehead or in his hand) worshipping the Beast (Bingo The Money God)
But I do enjoy your comments.
To know the truth Naz is this:
Only knowledge can(will) set you free forever and ever; belief never did, is never able, never will and never can for never and never, amen.
Notice how prophetic (one of the very few the bible got right) when it comes to Bingo The Money God:
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that HAD the mark, or the NAME of the beast, or the NUMBER of his name.(That is to mean, was in possession of the Name (MONEY)
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Do you have understanding Naz? Do you know what the Mark looks like? I do and I will share it with you if you want understanding.
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March 8, 2013 at 10:46 am
Leonardo, thanks for your response. If I didn’t know any better, I would think I was talking to my brother ! He’s as bold and pig-headed as you are 🙂
I think I understand your point of view, although I don’t know what your version of the ultimate reality is, whether it leads to aliens who deposited their seed on planet Earth or if you subscribe to the “pond of goo” evolution mantra where matter is eternal and our existence is completely meaningless so that after you die, that’s it, its over…no life after death, just non-existence.
If I may, I’d like to cherry pick some of your comments…
First in general, like I said before, I was right when I said you would explain away all claims of miracles, and you did. This is standard procedure for non-believers to do this so I’m not surprised. Look Leo, I’m not pulling any punches here, both of us are grown adults so I’m going to talk as candid as I can. Whatever you do, don’t take offense, because I don’t, regardless of what type of nut you think I am.
I think you too easily explain away some of the miracles recorded in the bible. You are correct that the magicians performed a similar miracle to Moses, but you failed to mention that Moses snake devoured the magician’s snake ! Explain that….what does that event tell you, do you understand the powers of the spiritual realm or will you quickly dismiss this as some hoax ? Is so, why are you referring to the bible’s miracle claims or even reading the bible in the first place ? I’ve never in my life have heard someone speak so much about the bible but not believe in the God that it talks about in so much detail ! You have to be an real idiot to be able to read the bible and not acknowledge the supernatural God that is within its pages…..that is like reading proverbs for its wisdom but ignoring the references to God. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding”. OK, let’s see, I’ll just delete that verse because I’m an idiot !
The last thing I want to mention is Jesus. If I can quote what you called Him.
“Even the great man Jesus said:…”
Jesus cannot be a great man to you Leonardo. To you, Jesus can only be a complete and total liar and lunatic of the worst kind.
Most of the historical material we have about Jesus is from the bible. There are some references to Him in some secular writings, I’m sure you have seen some of these references. There was a Jewish writer called Josephus who mentioned Jesus and there were also some writings from some Romans of the time period that mentioned Jesus and His followers.
Again, if you refer to the bible as a source, then you must acknowledge that this is what Jesus claimed and did :
1) Jesus claimed that before He came to live and die on earth for our salvation, He was living in heaven.
2) Jesus claimed that He is the giver of Living Water.
3) Jesus claimed that He was the promised Messiah.
4) Jesus claimed that we should honor Him in the same way we honor the Father (God)
5) Jesus claimed that the Scriptures testified of Him.
6) Jesus claimed that Moses wrote about Him as the one in whom we should believe.
7) Jesus claimed He had God the Father’s seal.
8) Jesus claimed that we should believe in Him as God’s sent one.
9) Jesus claimed He was the bread of life.
10) Jesus claimed it was God’s will to believe in Him.
11) Jesus claimed to be the only way to God.
12) Jesus claimed to be the light of the world.
13) Jesus claimed to be the resurrection and the life.
14) Jesus claimed He came to give abundant life.
15) Jesus claimed He would send the Holy Spirit
16) Jesus claimed He was the source of peace.
17) Jesus claimed He was one with the Father.
18) Jesus claimed He bore witness to the truth.
19) Jesus claimed to be the Son of God
20) Jesus claimed to be A King
21) Jesus claimed to be Judge of all mankind
22) Jesus claimed to have authority over all mankind
23) Jesus claimed to be the Good Shepherd
24) Jesus claimed to be the Savior of the world
25) Jesus claimed to be a Teacher and LORD
26) Jesus claimed to have lived (existed) before Abraham
27) Jesus claimed that without Him we can do NOTHING
28) Jesus claimed He would return at the end of the world
29) Jesus claimed that ALL who know the truth will hear His voice.
Jesus miracles :
1. Calming the storm – Matthew 8:23-27; Mark 4:37-41; Luke 8:22-25
2. Feeding 5,000 – Matthew 14:14-21; Mark 6:30-44; Luke 9:10-17; John 6:1-14
3. Walking on water – Matthew 14:22-32; Mark 6:47-52; John 6:16-21
4. Feeding 4,000 – Matthew 15:32-39; Mark 8:1-9
5. Fish with coin – Matthew 17:24-27
6. Fig tree withers – Matthew 21:18-22; Mark 11:12-14, 20-25
7. Huge catch of fish – Luke 5:4-11; John 21:1-11
8. Water into wine – John 2:1-11
Healing of Individuals
1. Man with leprosy – Matthew 8:1-4; Mark 1:40-44; Luke 5:12-14
2. Roman centurion’s servant – Matthew 8:5-13; Luke 7:1-10
3. Peter’s mother-in-law – Matthew 8:14-15; Mark 1:30-31; Luke 4:38-39
4. Two men possessed with devils – Matthew 8:28-34; Mark 5:1-15; Luke 8:27-39
5. Man with palsy – Matthew 9:2-7; Mark 2:3-12; Luke 5:18-26
6. Woman with bleeding – Matthew 9:20-22; Mark 5:25-34; Luke 8:43-48
7. Two blind men – Matthew 9:27-31
8. Dumb, devil-possessed man – Matthew 9:32-33
9. Canaanite woman’s daughter – Matthew 15:21-28; Mark 7:24-30
10. Boy with devil – Matthew 17:14-21; Mark 9:17-29; Luke 9:38-43
11. Two blind men – including Bartimaeus – Matthew 20:29-34; Mark 10:46-52; Luke 18:35-43
12. Demon-possessed man in synagogue – Mark 1:21-28; Luke 4:31-37
13. Blind man at Bethsaida – Mark 8:22-26
14. Crippled woman – Luke 13:10-17
15. Man with dropsy – Luke 14:1-4
16. Ten men with leprosy – Luke 17:11-19
17. The high priest’s servant – Luke 22:50-51
18. Nobleman’s son at Capernaum – John 4:46-54
19. Sick man at the pool of Bethsaida – John 5:1-15
20. Man born blind – John 9:1-41
Raising the Dead
1. Jairus’ daughter – Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:21-43; Luke 8:40-56
2. Widow’s son at Nain – Luke 7:11-17
3. Lazarus – John 11:1-44
Whew…..done….
Leo, if you are going to refute the above, then Jesus cannot be a great man. If you are going to refute the above and still hold to the belief that Jesus was a great man, then you Sir, are a complete idiot to the nth degree!!
I’m being blunt here so that you can get my point that you must deny Jesus to hold to your version of the truth and stop referring to Him as some great person as if you’re in league with Him or something. If your version of reality is true, then Jesus would be the chief of all deceivers and charlatans that ever lived on this planet, worse than every tel-evangelist or cult leader. He would in fact be the progenitor of all religious cults around the globe.
Leo, you can believe what you want, but in all intellectual honesty, you must admit that Jesus is a complete fraud. If you don’t then your mode of thinking and operation is nonsensical and illogical at best.
To hold your line of reasoning and argument, you must throw away the bible and Jesus and never refer to them ever again when it comes to any philosophical discussion on matters of spirituality or human behavior. You must relegate the bible as a work of man’s fiction where Jesus acts as the main character in the greatest charade of all time. Your religion is Humanism, so leave the bible and Jesus out of your discussions, it has no part if you are truly honest. You have chosen your way, now do what you must and deny Jesus Christ. But Leo, I don’t think you have the guts to do that, do you…..
To not do so, once again, makes you a compete and utter IDIOT of the infinite degree !!
or, you can believe in Him……
Thanks and God bless………
Jason, if you read this, sorry…..
Naz
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March 8, 2013 at 9:31 pm
NAZ:
A reptile operates on the supernatural because in that brain it has yet to evolve to the higher rational brain in order to put wind together with leaf blowing across the forest floor so it freezes and readies itself for fight or flight. Humans, who have been unable to evolve beyond the reptile brain because religious dogma and deception keeps them in thrall through myth, magic and miracles operate in much the same way and for those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
The difference between belief and knowledge is that Hollywood gleans billions of dollars from the world’s population that has been conditioned for thousands of years by clergy perpetuating the hoaxes of hellions. From that belief in the supernatural, ghost stories abound, the paranormal is a money maker and movies like The Exorcist make the knowledge-wise wealthy from the gullibility by the wicked just as the Clergy themselves are wealthy using the same tactics.
Most of the claims you state in your litany of horrible attributes were not made by Jesus but by a supernatural people who themselves could not understand how Jesus arranged a cache of fish and bread staples to feed the masses swarming to the crusade so they noised it throughout the land as a miraculous feeding of thousands.
We know that no man, beast or supernatural force can calm the storm before its time has waned and we know that no man can walk on water except Chris Mindfreak and Dynamo; we further know that the laws of physics are not suspended to accommodate cleric connivance.
The moral of the Ten Lepers story is never forget to thank a good deed not that Jesus cured the ten lepers, Jesus did nothing but advise them to go show themselves to the priest, n’est ce pas?
The things you say against me does not bother me; I simply say “forgive them father for they know not what they do”. Such terrible words were used against Jesus throughout his years of exposing the clergy for the supernatural freaks that they were in order to build more palaces than they could live in at one time. It was the way of the clergy and still is the way all religion operates around the world.
God is a metaphor nevertheless when Jesus was accused of claiming to be the son of god which he never boasted about but when the accusations against him rose to fever pitch Jesus very calmly referred them to scripture which anyone today or yesterday could do exactly the same. I too can easily claim to be the son of god and use the same scripture to support the claim, the same scripture Jesus used: John 10: 34-36
“Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?(metaphorically speaking)
Water into wine? Please I lol at your attempt to call this a miracle!
A person may be so sick as to be said to be dead as an exaggeration so nobody ever was raised from the dead, not Jesus and not Lazarus.
Lazarus was suffering from a rare form of disease called cataplexy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4wMRzOMFE
We’re sick and tired of the religion of permanent offense. REMEMBER THIS: All religion, all prophets, all gods, all concepts, caricatures and ideas about the supernatural ….all OF THEM, and every last one of them, DERIVE from a person so stick a sock in it because none of man’s creations can be higher than man himself.
If you can use your reason you will understand that Man is Lord of all that he creates, including prophets, religion and divinity. There is nothing sacred but the sanctity of life of Man himself.
Blasphemy is one of the most ludicrous follies of religion. BLASPHEMY IS THE INSIDIOUS STUPIDITY OF THE RELIGIOUSLY GARBLED MIND, MEANINGLESS AND WORSE THAN MERELY USELESS.
Man is Lord and Master of religion, of prophets, of the supernatural, of the gods, of divinity of virtue and all things conceptualized in the mind’s imagination. Blasphemy be damned. If you think blasphemy has any legitimacy whatsoever, you are full of dandruff.
Even the Bible supports this. When the Clergy questioned Jesus about why he and his disciples were doing things forbidden demanded by religion on the Sabbath: Mark2:27,28 and “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”; Lk 6:5 affirms the same thing.
I know the bible as well as Jesus knew the bible and everything he quoted and explained had meaning that went right over the top of your head as it went over the top of the heads of all the clergy in that time and today is no different. All I hear from religionists are the hackneyed expressions that are so tiresome and repetitious and frankly a bunch of hogwash. I can easily challenge you.
As a footnote just remember Jesus never had the New Testament Bible, not because he didn’t like it, he just never had it. The only bible Jesus ever had in his hand was the Old Testament scriptures but when Jesus read and explained the scriptures, EVERYONE was on the edge of his seat wondering what AMAZING thing he would say next because he taught them as one having authority, not like the preachers on YouTube. When the preachers get up everyone curls up and goes for a quiet doze until the benediction. Lol
And preferably wake up, preferably, right after the collection plate passed by. But when Jesus got up, they were all ears to wonder what amazing thing he’d say next. Jesus and I and the Father are one, and that is one of the simplest things to understand, and it is easy to him who has understanding. Has nothing to do with ego, has nothing to do with blasphemy, it has only to do with your understanding that Jesus knew he was a microcosom of the whole human race by simply looking inside seeing the father.
And finally Where does the Father live? IN HIS KINGDOM!
You can read it in Luke 17: 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” THE KINGDOM OF GOD (THE FATHER) IS WITHIN YOU.
The clergy only teaches you about the supernatural gods of men which as we all know is called mythology.
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March 9, 2013 at 6:51 am
OK Leo, so let me see if I understand you correctly.
What you’re saying is that there is no supernatural God and that Man, every man is god in of himself.
I think that’s what you’re saying, am I right.
Naz
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March 10, 2013 at 10:16 am
Naz:
You said:
“What you’re saying is that there is no supernatural God and that Man, every man is god in of himself.
I think that’s what you’re saying, am I right.”(?)
Partly: I am saying there is no supernatural god but NO, “that Man, every man is god in of himself.”: THAT is not what I am saying for discretionary values are included in that part of the phrase, nevertheless, let me explain for a moment again: and Naz please follow the story without trying to prejudge and find fault to disagree before you read and understand what I am saying:
This is how Jesus replied to the Pharisees when Jesus asked why the Pharisees wanted to stone him?
John 10
31-32 Again the Jews picked up rocks to throw at him. Jesus said, “I have made a present to you from the Father of a great many good actions. For which of these acts do you stone me?”
33 The Jews said, “We’re not stoning you for anything good you did, but for what you said—this blasphemy of calling yourself God.”
34-38 TO WHICH JESUS SAID, “I’m only quoting your inspired Scriptures, where God said, ‘I tell you—you are gods.’ If God called your ancestors ‘gods’—and Scripture doesn’t lie—why do you yell, ‘Blasphemer! Blasphemer!’
THE ACTUAL BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE JESUS REFERRED TO IS:
Psalm 82
King James Version (KJV)
82 1 “God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods”……..6 “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”
NOW: Follow through here TO YOUR POINT ABOUT “EVERY man is god….”; that is not what I am saying without discretion because there is the potential for the Kingdom of Hell to push the Kingdom of Good out, to supplant the Good within SO THAT THERE IS CALAMITY and evil reigning within the hearts and minds of some and we can see the daily news reports out of Syria, North Africa, Mali, Nigeria, Algeria, the Jodi Arias trial when the rage of evil hatred and death overtakes the discretion of love, peace, sanctity of life.
Luke 17:
20-21 Later, he was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he gave them this reply: “The kingdom of God never comes by watching for it. Men cannot say, ‘Look, here it is’, or ‘there it is’, for the kingdom of God(heaven) is inside you.” That is to say, the Kingdom, where Good (God) resides, WITHIN YOU!
Now here is the discretionary value I spoke about said succinctly summarized in the Old Cherokee Legend:
CHEROKEE LEGEND:
CHIEF: A fight is going on inside every other person between two wolves. One is evil; he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.
The other is good; he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.
GRANDSON: Which wolf will win?
CHIEF: The one you feed.
JESUS IN A NUTSHELL:
He came to earth after Mary met Gabriel at cousin Liz’s and Bang! Mary was with child; Jesus was not content to wait for the “Coming” like everyone else; he challenged the Religious Establishment, hated religion, calling preachers hypocrites, liars & blood sucking vipers; was crucified for being an atheist/blasphemer; given to his friend, alive; placed in a tomb designed and hewn for 2 years by his friend and mentor Joseph of Arimathea, escaped thru ingenious trap door that covered the tunnel at the same time as it rolled the stone back relying only on gravity; healed & eventually fled with Mary Magdalene to Europe as horse entourage left in huge dust cloud wake that took him from their sight!
Today is a replay of 2000 yrs; everyone waiting for the “Second Coming” but no one willing to challenge the Religious Establishment. Not jehovabeuponyou or all the other born again heart ons who are repeats of the Jesus Day religious establishment. “He said unto them”(YouTube)”disciples, ‘The days will come when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and ye shall not see it.'”luke17:22.
If ye ask Why? ye fail to understand my comments.
“I AM”, waits for you.
Lk spks 2 U 2.
Dear Good:
I try to do my part but I am called an idiot just like Jesus was called and worse than that in those god (good) forsaken days of religious insanity.
See the mighty gulf between me and you, Jesus and them. Jesus the microcosm of the whole human race, Everyman.
Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself for what he does.
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before Good. Happy is he who doesn’t judge himself in that which he approves. The word “faith” here refers to the subject under discussion – in this particular case (Romans) to the subject of meats, drinks, etc. Do you believe that it is right to eat all kinds of food, etc. The apostle had admitted that this was the true doctrine; but he maintains that it should be so held as not to give offense.
Do so before Good – Where Good only is the witness. God within, sees your sincerity, and will approve your opinion. That opinion cherish and act on, yet so as not to give offense, and to produce disturbance. God sees your sincerity; he sees that you are right; and you will not offend him. Your brethren do “not” see that you are right, and they will be offended.
Romans: 14-20a I am convinced, and I say this as in the presence of Jesus himself, that nothing is intrinsically unholy. But none the less it is unholy to the man who thinks it is. If your habit of unrestricted diet seriously upsets your brother, you are no longer living in love towards him. And surely you wouldn’t let food mean ruin to a man for whom Christ Lived. You mustn’t let something that is all right for you look like an evil practice to somebody else. After all, the kingdom of Heaven is not a matter of whether you get what you like to eat and drink, but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. If you put these things first in serving Christ you will please Good and are not likely to offend men. So let us concentrate on the things which make for harmony, and on the growth of one another’s character. Surely we shouldn’t wish to undo Good’s work for the sake of a plate of meat!
20b-23 I freely admit that all food is, in itself. harmless, but it can be harmful to the man who eats it with a guilty conscience. Yet if a man eats meat with an uneasy conscience about it, you may be sure he is wrong to do so. For his action does not spring from his faith, and when we act apart from our faith we do by deception.
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March 10, 2013 at 1:01 pm
The Story of the Persistence:
Luke18
18 Then Jesus gave them an illustration to show that they must never lose heart.
2-5 “Once upon a time,” he said, “there was a magistrate in a town who had neither fear of God nor respect for his fellow-men. There was a widow in the town who kept coming to him, saying, ‘Please protect me from the man who is trying to ruin me.’ And for a long time he refused. But later he said to himself, ‘Although I don’t fear God and have no respect for men, yet this woman is such a nuisance that she is driving me crazy; I shall give judgment in her favour, or else her continual visits will be the death of me!’”
6-8 Then the Lord said, “Notice how this dishonest magistrate behaved. Do you suppose Good, patient as he is, will not see justice done for his chosen, who appeal to him day and night? I assure you he will not delay in seeing justice done. Yet, when the Son of Man comes, will he find men on earth who believe in him? Will he find any faith left on the earth?”
The Seed of L-ove always was; never created!
I-nfinite
F-orever
E-ternal
Starry, starry night.
Paint your palette blue and grey,
Look out on a summer’s day,
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills,
Sketch the trees and the daffodils,
Catch the breeze and the winter chills,
In colors on the snowy linen land.
Now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
They would not listen
they did not know how
perhaps they’ll listen now.
Starry, starry night.
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze, Swirling clouds in violet haze,
Reflect in Vincent’s eyes of china blue.
Colors changing hue, morning field of amber grain,
Weathered faces lined in pain,
Are soothed beneath the artist’s loving hand.
For they could not love you,
But still your love was true.
And when no hope was left in sight
On that starry, starry night,
You took your life, as lovers often do.
But I could have told you, Vincent,
This world was never meant for one
As beautiful as you.
Starry, starry night.
Portraits hung in empty halls,
Frameless head on nameless walls,
With eyes that watch the world and can’t forget.
Like the strangers that you’ve met,
The ragged men in the ragged clothes,
The silver thorn of bloody rose,
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow.
Now I think I know what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they’re not listening still.
Perhaps they never will…
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March 14, 2013 at 2:22 am
leonardoTheGreater:
// Evidence. If you show me a few eggs then I will believe that you are a chicken. Or a christian or a muslim or whatever the heck you think you are. But until then please, don’t tell me, not to mock your beliefs. That’s like telling me not to laugh at your toupee; //
Out of curiosity, have you read any academic books written in support of theism?
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March 14, 2013 at 6:55 am
Leo, thank you for your dissertation on what you believe. I think I understand where you’re coming from. I apologize for calling you an idiot in my last post. I like yourself am a flawed creature that sometimes gives in to the sin that is inherent to our humanity. Apologies……
I will refrain from insulting you this time, but please here me out why I think you’re belief system is not viable.
1) You continue to refer to 2 distinct scriptures passages to defend your position that there is no supreme God and that Jesus was an Atheist.
John 10:34-> and Luke 17:20->
The bible has many passages and I admit that for some the meaning is not clear on the first read. Do you not see a problem in hinging your belief on an interpretation of 2 scripture passages ? Any good student of the bible knows that you must take the totality of scripture in view when trying to interpret any single passage. Your cause is further confused in your replacement of the word “God” with “Good”. What rational justifiable reason do you have for doing this other than changing the scriptures to suit your belief system ? This is clearly intellectual dishonesty and you are not doing the text any justice. It’s one thing to misinterpret the scriptures (we’re human and we make mistakes), its another to re-write them to suit our fancy.
I will grant you that God is Good and what you have described as some cosmic Goodness is in fact the most fundamental aspect of the supreme God, that He is Good. In John 1 we read that God is love and God is light and their is no darkness in Him. So although you re-wrote scripture to replace the subject, God, you do have His most basic attribute correct. You need to consider Leo that at our core we are relational beings. The notion that the cosmic Goodness you speak of is actually a relational being is not a difficult concept to conceive based on our human experience.
As for the text itself, my interpretation of what Jesus is saying in John 10 would be something like this (Jesus speaking as subject):
“The Scripture says that God calls the judges in Psalm 82 ‘gods’ on the basis of their divine commission. Thus, since the Scripture cannot be wrong, it is not blasphemy for one with a divine commission to have a divine title. I do not have a commission like the judges; I have an exclusive commission from my Father, for He set me apart and sent me into the world – to do the works you have seen, to say the words I have said, to grant eternal life to my sheep, to hold them fast in the same way my Father does, for He and I are One. Therefore, I have not committed blasphemy! But even if you persist in denying my words, you should believe on the basis of my works, for they prove that the Father is in Me in the same way I am in Him: we are One!”
2) Luke 17:20->
This scripture is the second one which I think you have mentioned at least twice in your posts.
“the kingdom of God is within you.”
Based on your interpretation, this is proof that there is no God and the whole concept of “the kingdom of God” is basically the notion that your internal cosmic Goodness or “God” is already inside you and you need not look for an external supreme being.
Leo, I really don’t know how you can hold to such a view and make any sense of the rest of the bible. You would need to re-write the whole thing and call it “The LeonardoTheGreater Version”. That said, I’m glad that you read the text and find value in its pages even though we disagree on its meaning. The scriptures are powerful and have a unique appeal to many who read them. However, Peter gives us a warning that we should all heed,
“2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
As for the text of Luke 17, again reading it in context, I will agree with you that Jesus is going “against the establishment”. As is any person that follows Christ. Leo, I am not Catholic or part of any denomination, I am a Christ follower. I will not let the established religions label me and limit me with their dogmas. I was once Catholic as a young boy and “graduated” to a tongue talking Pentecostal for about 10 years. I have further graduated from a Pentecostal to a just a simple Christ follower today. So I am not part of the establishment and don’t want to be. i don’t be-grudge other believers who are part of those denominations but I feel you need to go where God leads you. In both cases I was led out of those circles and have no regrets. My reasons for graduating was always because of a greater understanding of the Word of God.
Back to the text, the Pharisees were looking for a physical kingdom of God as it was in the days of King Solomon where Israel reigned supreme in the land and they had freedom. At this time in history, the Israelites are under Roman authority and have no “kingdom” of their own. Jesus was not talking about a physical kingdom but a spiritual kingdom that resides in the human heart. When a person decides to follow the Lord with their whole heart the kingdom of God is living inside of them. Their devotion is to God at a heart level, it is not to some denomination of group at an external level which is what the Pharisees were talking about. Man’s kingdoms rule from the outside, God’s kingdom rules from within.
As for the second coming of Jesus which you have denied, if you keep reading the text, Jesus explains how He will return. One word – Suddenly.
Christ’s second coming will be sudden and is compared to a flash of lightening, the days of Noah and the days of Lot. He is clear that His coming will not be in the fashion of a particular religious group that He will return to lead or establish some Political movement He will come to usher in. It will be sudden with no time for anyone to react. So there are no eggs to show you Leo, the Chicken holds the eggs and He will show everyone His eggs when He returns. Any attempt on my part to generate “proof” of this magnificent and transcendent kingdom would be foolish. All I can say is that I simply believe what Jesus said is true and following Him will lead you in the right path.
3) Last point regarding the good and evil that battles within us. I have no objection to your argument here. As flawed, fallen human beings, the evil can easily take hold of us and dominate unless we feed ourselves with good. Where does that good come from ? The Word of God, the scriptures. When we follow the precepts and Godly principles contained in the scriptures we are following God’s commands and honor Him in the process. Although one can attempt to live godly apart from a belief in a supreme God, he will ultimately fail because to follow God’s precepts and walk in them is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Without Jesus as your center of devotion we can do nothing.
“Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.”
Leo, I applaud your stance to resist the religious establishment and to live a life of virtue and uprightness and to hold to everything that is Good. Those qualities will make you a rare breed in the society we live in today where all you see is gossip, back-biting, bitterness, un-forgiveness, hatred, disrespect and on and on.
Leo, you can still resist the establishment and hold to your belief to the Good. My appeal is for you to consider what you are missing by not recognizing the God behind the Good. Wouldn’t it be better to actually have a connection to Jesus than to some abstract cosmic Good ?
Again, I cannot stress this enough, I cannot fathom in my wildest imagination how can you continue to read the bible and remove the Supreme God from its pages !!
There are a number of good books written by Lee Strobel. One that I think would help you is “The case for the Resurrection”. Look it up, its a good read.
Take care…..
Naz
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September 1, 2013 at 6:24 pm
OOOOhh boy that was an interesting dialog!! That was riveting!! I could not stop reading!!! This conversation in my opinion is exactly the problem, everybody wants to be right.. I got news for you, your both right, and wrong. This whole conversation reminds me of a story i read about two long time friends that came across each other on a dirt road.. It had been years since they seen each other, they embraced smiled and told each other how happy they were to see each other. As they began to tell story’s of there travel where they had been, what each other had been doing over the years, one spoke of a tavern on a dirt road in bfe. The other said I know that tavern it has a gold shield in front of it, the other said it does have a shield but its silver. The conversation turns into a heated argument, it got to the point where the drew weapons on each other. Lucky they came to there senses and decided to just go to the tavern and see who’s right. As they came upon the tavern sure enough the shield was gold,,,,, then they looked on the other side and it was silver. This whole conversation is the same situation. knowledge and belief are only two of the three tools needed. “WISDOM” is the third. The application of the two. Most “occultist” (stop being afraid of that word. it means HIDDEN KNOWLEDGE) will tell you that the bible is cubed so to speak, it has more than one meaning. Really every thing has 3 different meanings. Naz has accepted the basic meaning and is ok with that(Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth.)LeonardoTheGreater is looking for the next level.LeonardoTheGreater The bible goes much deeper than you know. Its the presentation of it that’s flawed..For instance (Ye be as wise as the serpent and harmless as doves) somewhere in matthew easy to find jesus words. the serpent lies at the base of your spine.(Kundalini) but its also speaking of Ophiuchus that 13th constilation. Look once you open the box there is no going back. The bottom line is LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF!!! AND DO NOT FORSAKE THY GOD.. KNOW THYSELF…. THERE IS NO RELIGON HIGHER THAN TRUTH………. LOOK IT UP…
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September 1, 2013 at 7:19 pm
Jay:
Thank you for your commentary. I am pleased you found the debate between Naz and I “riveting”; it certainly did contain the passion of our convictions and it was most worthwhile to see how the narratives developed, waned, and melded somewhat. I think we both have similar views and oftentimes as you noted we are both right…….and……wrong…. for in many instances we see the same thing but the expressions seem opposed: the same words as in your shield analogy, At One Ment for example is really atonement with respect to the other’s point of view.
And sometimes all a debate needs is a mediator(moderator) who has no emotional attachment and who can look at the purity of conviction and rise to the level to become “riveted” and then offer a summary that is not contrary at all. Thank you.
Leo
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September 3, 2013 at 10:08 pm
The Essence of “Know Thyself”.
The authenticity of all such attributions has been doubted; according to one pair of modern scholars, “The actual authorship of the three maxims set up on the Delphian temple may be left uncertain. Most likely they were popular proverbs, which tended later to be attributed to particular sages.”
Plato has Socrates lead a longer inquiry as to how we may gain knowledge of ourselves. In Plato’s Phaedrus, Socrates uses the maxim ‘know thyself’ as his explanation to Phaedrus for why he has no time for mythology or other far flung topics. Socrates says, “But I have no leisure for them at all; and the reason, my friend, is this: I am not yet able, as the Delphic inscription has it, to know myself; so it seems to me ridiculous, when I do not yet know that, to investigate irrelevant things.”
Socrates says, as he did in Phaedrus, that people make themselves appear ridiculous when they are trying to know obscure things before they know themselves. Plato also alluded to the fact that understanding ‘thyself,’ would have a greater yielded factor of understanding the nature of a human being. Syllogistically, understanding onself would enable thyself to have an understanding of others as a result.
The maxim, or aphorism, “know thyself” has had a variety of meanings attributed to it in literature. The Suda, a 10th-century encyclopedia of Greek knowledge, says: “the proverb is applied to those whose boasts exceed what they are,” and that “know thyself” is a warning to pay no attention to the opinion of the multitude.
In 1734, Alexander Pope wrote a poem entitled “An Essay on Man, Epistle II”, which begins “Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man.”
In 1831, Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote a poem entitled “Γνώθι Σεαυτόν”, or Gnothi Seauton (‘Know Thyself’), on the theme of ‘God in thee.’ The poem was an anthem to Emerson’s belief that to ‘know thyself’ meant knowing the God which Emerson felt existed within each person.
“Know Thyself” is the Hamilton College(New York) motto.
Know thyself and
“To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man”. William Shakespeare.
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September 14, 2013 at 2:47 pm
The Seed of
L-ove always was; never created!
I-nfinite
F-orever
E-ternal
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February 10, 2015 at 2:40 pm
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