Back in April, Frank Bruni wrote an opinion article for the New York Times on the Indiana religious freedom debacle. Bruni is very negative toward conservative Christians in his article. In his opinion, conservative Christians can support homosexuality, but choose not to do so. Instead, they cling to outdated interpretations of an outdated text. Bruni writes:
So our debate about religious freedom should include a conversation about freeing religions and religious people from prejudices that they needn’t cling to and can indeed jettison, much as they’ve jettisoned other aspects of their faith’s history, rightly bowing to the enlightenments of modernity.
How should we be “freed”? Apparently, by force. He quotes Mitchell Gold (founder of a gay advocacy group, Faith in America) as saying, “church leaders must be made ‘to take homosexuality off of the sin list.’” Bruni approves, writing, “His commandment is worthy — and warranted. All of us, no matter our religious traditions, should know better than to tell gay people that they’re an offense.” So both Gold and Bruni think Christians need to be made to take homosexuality off of the sin list. How exactly do they plan to do this? It’s clearly not through persuasion. If I had to guess, it’s by force of the law.
Scary stuff.
Thinking to Believe 
September 6, 2015 at 6:41 am
Bruni says…..”All of us, no matter our religious traditions, should know better than to tell gay people that they’re an offense.”
Firstly, I suspect he deliberately rewords what Christians actually say, which is that homosexuality is a sin, not that homosexuals are an offense. As Christians, we are called to self-sacrificially love everyone irregardless of their behaviour. But to pretend that sin that so imprisons is not a sin is not loving.
It’s all about the choice of behaviours. And yes, it is a choice, even if highly influenced by media, and the suasive power of the cultural zeitgeist. That said, note that Bruni thinks it’s fine to tell Christians that they are an offense. This seems like classic psychological projection to me.
I had to chuckle about his “outdated text and outdated interpretations” comments. This is such an outdated, mindless cliche, but it gets dredged up and endlessly recycled. So sad that the NYT would even print something that shallow and juvenile.
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September 6, 2015 at 10:34 am
Sin, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. TWO EXAMPLES
FIRST:
Now it was not long ago that Galileo Galilee was put on trial for the sin of heresy and convicted by the top Christian Inquisition of the Day, Pope Innocent
In the 1633 trial of Galileo Galilei, two worlds come into cosmic conflict. Galileo’s world of science and humanism collides with the world of Scholasticism and Absolutism that held power in the Catholic Church. The result is a tragedy that marks both the end of Galileo’s liberty and the end of the Italian Renaissance and more importantly could have marked the end of scriptural absolutism were it not for the dogmatic positions of religious nonsense that conservatism demands to hold regardless of the cultural bias with which it was written.
In 1613, just as Galileo published his Letters on the Solar Spots, an openly Copernican writing, the first attack came from a Dominican friar and professor of ecclesiastical history in Florence, Father Lorini. Preaching on All Soul’s Day, Lorini said that Copernican doctrine violated Scripture, which clearly places Earth, and not the Sun at the center of the universe. What, if Copernicus were right, would be the sense of Joshua 10:13 which says “So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven” or Isaiah 40:22 that speaks of “the heavens stretched out as a curtain” above “the circle of the earth”? Pressured later to apologize for his attack, Lorini later said that he “said a couple of words to the effect that the doctrine of Ipernicus, or whatever his name is, was against Holy Scripture.”
In 1624 Galileo meets repeatedly with his (at that time) friend and patron Pope Urban VIII, he is allowed to write about the Copernican theory as long as he treated it as a mathematical hypothesis.
In 1630 he completed his book Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems in which the Ptolemaic and Copernican models are discussed and compared and was cleared (conditionally) to publish it by the Vatican. The book was printed in 1632 but Pope Urban VIII, convinced by the arguments of various Church officials, stopped its distribution; the case is referred to the Inquisition and Galileo was summoned to Rome despite his infirmities.
The trial by the Congregation moved to its conclusion. Several of the ten cardinals apparently pushed for Galileo’s incarceration in prison, while those more supportive of Galileo argued that–with changes–the Dialogue ought to continue to be allowed to circulate. In the end, a majority of the cardinals–rejecting much of the Commissary’s agreement with Galileo–demanded Galileo “even with the threat of torture…abjure in a plenary assembly of the Congregation of the Holy Office…[and] then be condemned to imprisonment at the pleasure of the Holy Congregation.” Moreover, the cardinals declared, the Dialogue “is to be prohibited.”
The grand play ran its course, with the Pope insisting upon a formal sentence, a tough examination of Galileo, public abjuration, and “formal prison.” Galileo was forced to appear once again for formal questioning about his true feelings concerning the Copernican system. Galileo obliged, so as not to risk being branded a heretic, testifying that “I held, as I still hold, as most true and indisputable, the opinion of Ptolemy, that is to say, the stability of the Earth and the motion of the Sun.” Galileo’s renunciation of Copernicanism ended with the words, “I affirm, therefore, on my conscience, that I do not now hold the condemned opinion and have not held it since the decision of authorities….I am here in your hands–do with me what you please.”
On the morning of June 22, 1633, Galileo, dressed in the white shirt of penitence, entered the large hall of the Inquisition building. He knelt and listened to his sentence: “Whereas you, Galileo, the son of the late Vincenzo Galilei, Florentine, aged seventy years, were in the year 1615 denounced to this Holy Office for holding as true the false doctrine…..” The reading continued for seventeen paragraphs:
And, so that you will be more cautious in future, and an example for others to abstain from delinquencies of this sort, we order that the book Dialogue of Galileo Galilei be prohibited by public edict. We condemn you to formal imprisonment in this Holy Office at our pleasure.
As a salutary penance we impose on you to recite the seven penitential psalms once a week for the next three years. And we reserve to ourselves the power of moderating, commuting, or taking off, the whole or part of the said penalties and penances.
This we say, pronounce, sentence, declare, order and reserve by this or any other better manner or form that we reasonably can or shall think of. So we the undersigned Cardinals pronounce.
Seven of the ten cardinals signed the sentence.
Following the reading of the sentence, Galileo knelt to recite his abjuration:
….[D]esiring to remove from the minds of your Eminences, and of all faithful Christians, this strong suspicion, reasonably conceived against me, with sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the aforesaid errors and heresies, and generally every other error and sect whatsoever contrary to the said Holy Church; and I swear that in the future I will never again say or assert, verbally or in writing, anything that might furnish occasion for a similar suspicion regarding me….
I, the said Galileo Galilei, have abjured, sworn, promised, and bound myself as above; and in witness of the truth thereof I have with my own hand subscribed the present document of my abjuration, and recited it word for word at Rome, in the Convent of Minerva, this twenty-second day of June, 1633.
I, Galileo Galilei, have abjured as above with my own hand.
Two days later, Galileo was released to the custody of the Florentine ambassador. Niccolini described his charge as “extremely downcast over his punishment.” After six days in the custody of Niccolini, custody of Galileo transferred to Archbishop Piccolomini in Sienna. In late 1633, Galileo received permission to move into his own small farmhouse in Arcetri, where he would grow blind and, in 1642, die.
The full story source:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/galileoaccount.html
SECOND:
EXODUS 22:18
“You shall (Thou shalt) not permit (suffer) a sorceress (witch) to live. And herein lies the idiocy of the bizarre rationale to adhere to this scripture: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live – If there had been no witches, such a law as this had never been made.” What educated Christian today could ever agree with this kind of logic?
In the original Hebrew manuscript, the author used the word m’khashepah to describe the person who should be killed. The word means a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others – e.g. causing their death or loss of property. Clearly “evil sorceress” or “woman who does evil magic” would be the most accurate phrases in today’s English usage for this verse.
The original phrase in Hebrew is, ‘ M’khashephah lo tichayyah’ which translated means, ‘May a m’khashephah not live’. A m’khashephah is the feminine noun for a practitioner of a form of magic called k’shaphim, this type of magic was characterised by the projection of psychic energy through the use of words and sounds (i.e. spell casting) a practice that was carried out in complete privacy and secrecy. Men also practiced k’shaphim but Exodus 20:18 uses only the female noun, it is a fairly widespread belief in ancient societies that the practitioners of baneful magic are predominantly women. This may have something to do with the female capacity to become pregnant and givebirth which was seen as a powerful and mysterious process in the ancient world.
In ancient Israel it was believed that a user of k’shaphim could kill, maim, destroy crops and livestock or make one ill from a distance so there was a great deal of anxiety in the wider community regarding the practitioners of this type of magic. They were a threat to society and the only protection from them was to find them and more often than not kill them. Hunting and killing the practitioners of baneful magic, who were seen as a threat to community prosperity happened in many ancient societies not only in Israel.
The inclusion of this passage in the Exodus is part of a longer list of social transgressions and there respective punishments. The activities of the m’hashshepah break the sixth and tenth commandment which is why they are condemned, in effect they are a threat to the social cohesion of the community and as such are outside the protection of the state. Practitioners of magic whether baneful or otherwise were not tolerated in ancient Israel as they were a threat and possible competition to the cult of Yahweh.
In an effort to explain by scientific means the strange afflictions suffered by those “bewitched” Salem residents in 1692, a study published in Science magazine in 1976 cited the fungus ergot (found in rye, wheat and other cereals), which toxicologists say can cause symptoms such as delusions, vomiting and muscle spasms.
In January 1692, 9-year-old Elizabeth (Betty) Parris and 11-year-old Abigail Williams (the daughter and niece of Samuel Parris, minister of Salem Village) began having fits, including violent contortions and uncontrollable outbursts of screaming. After a local doctor, William Griggs, diagnosed bewitchment, other young girls in the community began to exhibit similar symptoms, including Ann Putnam Jr., Mercy Lewis, Elizabeth Hubbard, Mary Walcott and Mary Warren. In late February, arrest warrants were issued for the Parris’ Caribbean slave, Tituba, along with two other women–the homeless beggar Sarah Good and the poor, elderly Sarah Osborn–whom the girls accused of bewitching them.
Salem Witch Trials: The Hysteria Spreads
The three accused witches were brought before the magistrates Jonathan Corwin and John Hathorne and questioned, even as their accusers appeared in the courtroom in a grand display of spasms, contortions, screaming and writhing. Though Good and Osborn denied their guilt, Tituba confessed. Likely seeking to save herself from certain conviction by acting as an informer, she claimed there were other witches acting alongside her in service of the devil against the Puritans. As hysteria spread through the community and beyond into the rest of Massachusetts, a number of others were accused, including Martha Corey and Rebecca Nurse–both regarded as upstanding members of church and community–and the four-year-old daughter of Sarah Good.
Like Tituba, several accused “witches” confessed and named still others, and the trials soon began to overwhelm the local justice system. In May 1692, the newly appointed governor of Massachusetts, William Phips, ordered the establishment of a special Court of Oyer (to hear) and Terminer (to decide) on witchcraft cases for Suffolk, Essex and Middlesex counties. Presided over by judges including Hathorne, Samuel Sewall and William Stoughton, the court handed down its first conviction, against Bridget Bishop, on June 2; she was hanged eight days later on what would become known as Gallows Hill in Salem Town. Five more people were hanged that July; five in August and eight more in September. In addition, seven other accused witches died in jail, while the elderly Giles Corey (Martha’s husband) was pressed to death by stones after he refused to enter a plea at his arraignment
THE CONCLUSION:
SOCIAL TRANSGRESSIONS are not Words of God. Man, translating (quoting, interpreting) the scriptures has a tendency to twist things for man’s benefit, culturally, socially and religiously. THEREFORE all we have to do is petition the Christian Community to change it. It seems that a lot of people are claiming that the Old Testament is becoming outdated anyway, maybe we should just petition them to remove all of the sexism.
And I remind you that the New Testament writers were grounded only, in whole or in part, the Old Testament Bible which is the only Bible that Jesus himself read, studied, interpreted and quoted.
LeoTheGreater
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September 6, 2015 at 1:58 pm
williamfrancisbrown:
Bruni is anything but shallow and juvenile.
Tell this: when Christians say that they hate the sin but not the sinner how can one take the literal text: Lev 18:22 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination” and the literal text Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.”
How can you say that homosexuals are not an offense when these texts clearly say to kill the sinners? Are you saying Christians take one literal text to condemn the sin but not the literal text that says to kill the sinner.
And where in your bible does the text appear that states: You shall not lie with a woman as one that lies with a man; it is an abomination” or where does it state that “If a woman lies with a female as with a man, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” Do you suppose that the scriptures were meant only to be read by the man but not to be read by the woman? Or do you hold to that position only If you separate the sexist pronouns, I suppose you can interpret the text that way but if you cannot, then I suppose you can interpret them that way too. In either case you are interpreting them as a social transgression, and not as you say because: “……..we are called to self-sacrificially love everyone irregardless of their behaviour. But to pretend that sin that so imprisons is not a sin is not loving……………………..” Christians are called?……….. by whom?
What does Paul say about men and women and are you called by Paul to this statement of scripture too? in 1 Corinthians 26, “So here’s what I want you to do. When you gather for worship, each one of you be prepared with something that will be useful for all: Sing a hymn, teach a lesson, tell a story, lead a prayer, provide an insight.” 1 Cor 14: 33 “This goes for all the churches—no exceptions. 34 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.” 35 “And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
Does Paul not make you chuckle by his “outdated text and outdated interpretations”?
Do you lie with a woman? And if you do, where’s your proof that heterosexual behaviour is a choice and not biologically instinctual. Do you have any proof that heterosexual behaviour is any more of a choice than homosexual behaviour is a choice?
So here’s your challenge: show me the bible scriptures that condemn same sex relations for women because Davis will not issue marriage licenses to two women either….well?
And show me the proof that sexual behaviour is a choice across all mammalian creatures. Any proof?
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September 6, 2015 at 3:47 pm
The Bible’s instructions clearly do not change. Read Deuteronomy Chapter 4.
“You shall not add to the word I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of YHWH your God which I command you. … Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that YHWH, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. So you shall keep His statutes and His commandments which I am commanding you today, that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and that you may live long on the land which Yahweh your God is giving you for all time.” (Deuteronomy 4:2-40)
According to the Book of Daniel Chapter 4, Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon gives his own testimony of his fall from pride, descent into depravity and ultimate restoration by Yahweh. Nebuchadnezzar the king, to all the peoples, nations, and men of every language that live in all the earth: “May your peace abound! It has seemed good to me to declare the signs and wonders which the Most High God has done for me. … Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.” (Daniel 4:1-37)
Elijah confronted directly the false gods and tyrannical powers of his day at Mount Carmel: Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If Yahweh is God, follow Him, but if Baal, follow him.” But the people did not answer him a word. Then Elijah said to the people, “I alone am left a prophet of Yahweh, but Baal’s prophets are 450 men.” … When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, “Yahweh, He is God; Yahweh, He is God.” Then Elijah said to them, “Seize the prophets of Baal; do not let one of them escape.” So they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there. (1 Kings 18:21-40)
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have strayed aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and fornicators and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. I thank Messiah Yahshua our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Messiah Yahshua. It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Messiah Yahshua came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Yahshua Messiah might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (1 Timothy 1:5-17)
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September 6, 2015 at 6:53 pm
The bible’s instructions clearly change.
Read Lev 14: 3-8 Don’t eat anything abominable. These are the animals you may eat: ox, sheep, goat, deer, gazelle, roebuck, wild goat, ibex, antelope, mountain sheep—any animal that has a cloven hoof and chews the cud. But you may not eat camels, rabbits, and rock badgers because they chew the cud but they don’t have a cloven hoof—that makes them ritually unclean. And pigs: Don’t eat pigs—they have a cloven hoof but don’t chew the cud, which makes them ritually unclean. Don’t even touch a pig’s carcass. No pork chops, no ham, no bacon…….hahahahaha
9-10 This is what you may eat from the water: anything that has fins and scales. But if it doesn’t have fins or scales, you may not eat it. It’s ritually unclean.
No shellfish, scallops, clams, oysters, no lobsters, shrimps, crayfish. Anything in the water with Fins or scales is okay.
Mark 7:18-19 Jesus said, “Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you see that what you swallow can’t contaminate you? It doesn’t enter your heart but your stomach, works its way through the intestines, and is finally flushed.” (That took care of dietary quibbling; Jesus was saying that all foods are fit to eat.)
20-23 He went on: “It’s what comes out of a person that pollutes: obscenities, lusts, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, depravity, deceptive dealings, carousing, mean looks, slander, arrogance, foolishness—all these are vomit from the heart. There is the source of your pollution.”
Jesus opened some eyes and hearts but many eyes and hearts are still closed to his interpretations from the ancient words chiseled in stone. Blind they see not because the early Christian Church regressed back to the traditional Pharisaical nonsense which was exactly what Jesus condemned them for and yet the Church has twisted Jesus words back to the ancients and now the Christian world has reverted backward to the days before Jesus and completely miss everything Jesus ever said or done or taught. Christians don’t follow Jesus, they say they do but they don’t.
They don’t follow Jesus they follow the Pharisees of which Paul was brought up in and excelled in Pharisaical persecution to the point of pursuing Christians to jail and murder them and they hijacked Jesus’ following and twisted everything ancient toward Jesus, thereby tainting the words of Jesus to reflect still the ancient traditions of social transgression and not wanting to change from the familiar, they could not help but revert to the former.
And yet after 2000 years, Christians have hardly changed a bit today from what they were before Jesus came to bring the light to save them from the darkness of the religion that was polluting the people with stupidism and unreasonable logic. Non reason that defied every scientific advance toward knowledge and understanding.
Because of Pharisaical church dogma the Copernican theory was rejected and one of the greatest scientists, Galileo Galilei was accused, charged, sentenced and caged like a criminal for advancing man’s understanding and spent the last years of his life under house arrest until he died and his books banned for over 200 years before secular science forced the Church to recant its own stupidity but without admitting it was wrong altogether! How smart is that?
After 350 Years, Vatican Says Galileo Was Right: It Moves
By ALAN COWELL,
Published: October 31, 1992
ROME, Oct. 30— More than 350 years after the Roman Catholic Church condemned Galileo, Pope John Paul II is poised to rectify one of the Church’s most infamous wrongs — the persecution of the Italian astronomer and physicist for proving the Earth moves around the Sun.
With a formal statement at the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Saturday, Vatican officials said the Pope will formally close a 13-year investigation into the Church’s condemnation of Galileo in 1633. The condemnation, which forced the astronomer and physicist to recant his discoveries, led to Galileo’s house arrest for eight years before his death in 1642 at the age of 77.
The dispute between the Church and Galileo has long stood as one of history’s great emblems of conflict between reason and dogma, science and faith. The Vatican’s formal acknowledgement of an error, moreover, is a rarity in an institution built over centuries on the belief that the Church is the final arbiter in matters of faith.
By the end of his trial, Galileo was forced to recant his own scientific findings as “abjured, cursed and detested,” a renunciation that caused him great personal anguish but which saved him from being burned at the stake.
Not only did scriptural instruction change it was completely false textually
When the latest investigation, conducted by a panel of scientists, theologians and historians, made a preliminary report in 1984, it said that Galileo had been wrongfully condemned. More recently, Pope John Paul II himself has said that the scientist was “imprudently opposed.”
source:
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September 6, 2015 at 7:03 pm
Frank:
ZEUS is YHWH by another name in another generation in another religious belief system; that’s all, revered as ZEUS, YHWH became just another name in a modern generation as God became another name for Zeus in today’s generation. All Gods were created by men over history and the beliefs prevailed as adamantly then as they are adamantly held today
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September 7, 2015 at 6:30 pm
SonofMan,
I made this easy, even for you:
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=NhFJYAaPizEC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=Is+YAHWEH+Zeus+by+another+name&source=bl&ots=5FkWGi0Stn&sig=I9ZAbsz0eiwcQZJTFgPTqJZ5H-Y&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Is%20YAHWEH%20Zeus%20by%20another%20name&f=false
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September 7, 2015 at 6:39 pm
YHWH’s Dietary Instructions haven’t changed either:
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September 7, 2015 at 7:30 pm
This is not easy for you to swallow Frank, I know that but you have to face knowledge, understanding and wisdom despite your hard necked obstinacy.
ALL THE LAWS OF ZEUS CLEARLY CHISELED and RECORDED TO BE READ BY THE HUMAN RACE TO BE SURE.
Dietary Laws from Jewish chiseling; not from Zeus I’m afraid, not only what to eat but what to wear?
1. Laws and Rules on Clothes in the Bible
Nakedness. There is a fundamental contradiction here: God created Adam and Eve and woman naked in the Garden of Eden. God itself made them perfect – and naked. Therefore, nakedness is a state of perfection. But once Adam and Eve finally learned good and evil through their scrumping adventure, they knew that nakedness was bad. So they covered themselves. So God made them perfect and naked, but, nakedness is also bad. God then made them clothes out of skins (Genesis 3:21) which was a boost for modesty, but a bit of a poor blow for animal welfare. I’m afraid that this kind of inconsistency in the Bible’s 3rd chapter wasn’t a good indicator of the reliability of the Bible in general.
“Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material”, sternly warns Leviticus 19:19. This is by far one of God’s most important rules, and it is hard to see how anyone can make fun of it, although very few Christians are aware of it, and even fewer abide by it. Deuteronomy 22:11 says the same, but is less generic: “Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together”. Although that’s how the KJV wrongly translates Leviticus 19:19 too so don’t be fooled into thinking both verses say the same thing – they don’t. Some have tried to explain this verse as having something to do with a theorised superstition amongst magicians1. But to use that argument is to admit that the Bible is so poorly written that even direct and clear commandments might actually be unclear and disposable.
No tattoos – Leviticus 19:28.
“Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards” – Leviticus 19:28. And the high priest “must not let his hair become unkempt or tear his clothes” (Leviticus 19:28).
No cross-dressing or sharing clothes (not even coats): Deuteronomy 22:5: “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God”. So much for the chivalrous male who would give a girl his coat on a cold night.
Make tassels on the four corners of your coat. Deuteronomy 22:12 cannot be ignored, for those godless heathens who fail to have tassled cloaks are clearly immoral monsters. You are to place one set on the front, one on the back, and one on each side.
No jewellery or accessories for women. In Isaiah 3:16-25 God starts off being angry about women wearing anklets or having tingling footwear. The punishment for “making a tinkling with their feet” is that God “will smite with a scab the crown of the head”. The NIV translates the crime more usefully as “ornaments jingling on their ankles”. God is also mad about these items:
“
their finery:
the bangles and
headbands and
crescent necklaces,
the earrings and
bracelets and
veils,
the headdresses and
anklets and
sashes,
the perfume bottles and
charms,
the signet rings and
nose rings,
the fine robes and
the capes and
cloaks,
the purses and
mirrors, and
the linen garments and
tiaras and
shawls.
— Isaiah 3:16-23
This all only applies to women – blokes can have as many nose rings and mirrors as they want. These heinous items of feminizing decoration deserve different types of punishment. And because God is perfect and its actions are perfectly moral, all these replacements therefore make the world a better place, so, to be holy and good, women everywhere ought to adopt the same measures:
“Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth; instead of beauty, branding.”
Isaiah 3:24-25
Although it is ironic that god chooses to replace beauty with branding, because in Leviticus 19:28 God clearly says that tattoos are bad. So I guess God’s actions are not always for the better!
Do not wear foreign attire. Zephaniah 1:8 says “I will punish … all who array themselves in foreign attire”. This not only spells doom for the Chinese and Indonesian clothing export markets, but it probably plays havoc with our wardrobes in all kinds of unexpected ways. For example, who knew that the humble neck tie was invented in its modern form by the Croatians? Christians anywhere outside of Croatia better make sure that they avoid such foreign attire. Thankfully God’s glorious message, recorded eternally in the Bible, warns us of such sins. If only anyone listened!
No braided hair, no nice clothes, no gold jewellery: 1 Timothy 2:9 has forgotten the long list found in Isaiah and simply says women should dress modestly and not have braided hair, nor wear gold or pearls or costly clothes. 1 Peter 3:3-4 also says something negative about women having braided hair, wearing gold jewellery or having fine clothes (verse 3). But verse 4 says it is more important to have inner beauty – a legalistic readers could infer that once you have inner beauty, then, it seems these verses are irrelevant and you can wear what you want.
This humorous verse could be read to mean that we shouldn’t wear any clothes at all! Romans 13:14: “But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires”. In reality, it means to say don’t pursue enjoyable things – good food, comfortable surroundings, etc. Be a monk!
2. Why Women Must Cover Their Hair
The Flood
These verses in Genesis form part of the introduction to the story of The Flood, where God drowns all nearly living beings on Earth (Genesis chapters 6, 7 and 8). See: Noah, the Ark and the Flood, from the Bible Book of Genesis.
1 Corinthians 11:4-10 (KJV)
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.”
1 Corinthians 11:13-15
13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Genesis 6:1-2,4 mentions how the “Sons of God” fall for beautiful human daughters, and “took them wives of all which they chose” [KJV]. Verse 4 is actually a repeat of verses 1 and 2, but, only mentions giants and not the mysterious “Sons of God”. It was Hebrew tradition to call angels “Sons of God”, and, there was another tradition that these angels took hold of lovely women by their hair, hence “the Rabbis … accordingly warned women to cover their heads in public, so that the angels might not get possession of them”2. Many have noticed St Paul’s reference to this myth when he commands that women keep their hair covered (their ‘crowning glory’) in 1 Corinthians 11:10,15.
“According to the custom of those days a veil on the head was a token of respect to superiors; hence for a woman to lay aside her veil was to affect authority over the man. The shaving of the head was a disgraceful punishment inflicted on women of bad repute; it not only deprived them of a great beauty, but also of the badge of virtue and honor.”
“The Woman’s Bible”
Elizabeth Cady Stanton (1898)3
Some Christians argue that women do not have to cover their hair, as it can be read that the “covering” of St Paul is the hair, and, that when he says “every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head” it means that women with shaved heads are a disgrace. However, as we have seen, there was clear Rabbinical instruction, from those who understood the Hebrew much better than we do, that Genesis 6 means women do have to cover their hair. Only in this context does St Paul’s phrase “because of the angels” make sense.
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September 7, 2015 at 8:05 pm
The video link you provided about what to eat is wrong at the very beginning. The very beginning claims that the Dietary Laws are from God but that can hardly be true just because the Jewish people claimed to be the Chosen people of the God they invented. The truth is that the dietary laws are themselves from social, cultural and traditional customs of the Jewish people in the same way that the dietary Laws of the Chinese are from social, cultural, traditional and environmental customs of the Chinese people.
This is not different than dietary laws in every part of the earth. The Eskimos laws are based on their environment and culture, so the people living by the sea, people of the equatorial forest, people living under the banana trees and the mango trees, people eating potatoes, corn, rice and ants.
Religion tries to wrap their ideas in a tightly written knit that all people fit but diversity always existed from people around the world, people of the desert, of the forest, of the sea, of the snowlands and icelands, of the mountains.
To claim the Zeus thing is to deny the general reality of the whole world in favor of a religious brand only suitable for a particular non-adaptable people; unfortunately, this is the example how religion divides the world by trying to pack it into a one size fits all glove but that is only going to happen when the total world economy is distributed and available to all the people of earth as is happening today and they can choose for themselves what suits their particular palate in the only world that any God with the gonads would create and that is the transition from one age to another age.
The New Heaven and the New Earth is in transition and the world is arriving at a place you are not prepared to accept because you can’t see it as you suffer from indoctrination of Absolute Certainty of the rigid “God Claims” and you will pass away as the old is replaced that you cannot be part of.
To use an old adage, you will die in your sins because you’r3e stuck in the ancient past that is passing even though you were clearly told by Jesus, you reject his message for it is the same message I give you now:
John 12:46-48
“I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the words that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.”
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September 7, 2015 at 8:05 pm
On exercising authority and who provides leadership:
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September 7, 2015 at 8:23 pm
Re: Post # 4 par. 8:
ROMANS 1:24-27
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September 7, 2015 at 8:24 pm
Who exercises authority and provides leadership; Jesus and not the 119 Ministries. In the days of the New Heaven and the New Earth, the 119 Ministries will claim, the Old Heaven and The old Earth is not changing and it will never changes and they too will fall by the wayside as incompetent Pharisaical preachers of YHWH and will say nothing about what Jesus taught because they are the dolts of modern society. They will cite Leviticus and Genesis, Timothy and Paul and skirt around every issue that Jesus taught because they, like their ancestors the Pharisees, cling like a child to the mother skirt of the ancients for that is their way and you Frank, a faithful proselyte. I actually pity you in your obstinate myopicism.
This is not so clearly to you, but they, the 119 Ministries, and you, are the blind leading the blind as Jesus, in his parable, pointed out for your edification which you fail to accept.
“The blind leading the blind” is a metaphor used in antiquity, notably by Jesus in Matthew 15:13-14 and Luke 6:39-40 of the Holy Bible, as well as in the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas (Saying 34). A similar expression appears in Horace: Caecus caeco dux (“the blind leader of the blind”).
Matthew 15:12-14
12 Later his disciples came and told him, “Did you know how upset the Pharisees were when they heard what you said?” 13-14 Jesus shrugged it off. “Every tree that wasn’t planted by my Father in heaven will be pulled up by its roots. Forget them. They are blind men leading blind men. When a blind man leads a blind man, they both end up in the ditch.”
Luke 6:38-42
37-38 “Don’t pick on people, jump on their failures, criticize their faults—unless, of course, you want the same treatment. Don’t condemn those who are down; that hardness can boomerang. Be easy on people; you’ll find life a lot easier. Give away your life; you’ll find life given back, but not merely given back—given back with bonus and blessing. Giving, not getting, is the way. Generosity begets generosity.”
39-40 He quoted a proverb: “‘Can a blind man guide a blind man?’ Wouldn’t they both end up in the ditch? An apprentice doesn’t lecture the master. The point is to be careful who you follow as your teacher.
41-42 “It’s easy to see a smudge on your neighbor’s face and be oblivious to the ugly sneer on your own. Do you have the nerve to say, ‘Let me wash your face for you,’ when your own face is distorted by contempt?
It’s this I-know-better-than-you mentality again, playing a holier-than-thou part instead of just living your own part. Wipe that ugly sneer off your own face and you might be fit to offer a washcloth to your neighbor.
Hasn’t worked for you or them.
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September 7, 2015 at 8:44 pm
Re: Post # 3 “SECOND” section —
For an in depth study of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, theosophy, the occult and black magic in general in relation to Biblical precepts:
EARTH’S EARLIEST AGES by George H. Pember
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September 8, 2015 at 9:13 am
Re: Post # 7 —
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations. (Exodus 3:15)
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El Shaddai, but by My name Yahweh was I not known to them. (Exodus 6:3)
And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee My power; and that My name may be declared throughout all the earth. (Exodus 9:16)
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September 8, 2015 at 9:48 am
Romans 1:24-27 is an opinion; homosexual act between women is not listed among the Laws of Social transgressions outlined in the early books.
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September 8, 2015 at 10:41 am
Frank:
Regurgitating scriptures regarding laws of social transgression, custom, cultural and religious tradition only means that man attributed man’s laws of custom, social, cultural and religious tradition to the Gods, not because the Gods actually exist or that the authority was dictated by the Gods, God was, metaphorically speaking the scapegoat reference to imply an authority above man.
For example, take: “By the power and authority vested in me by the Constitution of the United States, I hereby declare….. Just substitute the Constitution of the United States for , The Magna Carta, the Roman Empire, Caesar, the King, The Governor, the heavens above, Zeus, Apollo, God, Baal, Dad, Mom whatever——— authority references usage only lays the credit/debit or designation to someone or something from whence it came and even then “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.” 2 Corinthians 13:1; Deuteronomy 17:6,,,,Deuteronomy 19:15,,,,,Matthew 18:16,,,,,in the case of the supernatural, from whence it is believed to have come, Witchcraft, Satan, Demons, Angels, Baal, God……Golden Calves…..yikes not the Golden Calves!
What did the Pharisees ask Jesus? Mark 11:28; Luke 20:2 and Acts 4:7 “Tell us by what authority you do these things, or who it is that gave you this authority.” “was it from heaven, or of human origin? Tell me!”
Mark 11:30-33
29-30 Jesus responded, About the baptism of John—who authorized it: heaven or humans? Tell me.” 31-33 They were on the spot, and knew it. They pulled back into a huddle and whispered, “If we say ‘heaven,’ he’ll ask us why we didn’t believe John; if we say ‘humans,’ we’ll be up against it with the people because they all hold John up as a prophet.” They decided to concede that round to Jesus. “We don’t know,” they said.
Jesus replied, “Then I won’t answer your question either.
”Merely by claiming it does not make it so but if the approval comes from others it tends to lend credence to your claim.(why witnesses are required) If you say God to a religious person how can s/he refute it? S/he can’t and have to agree with you….why?…..because in religion……God is a communal scapegoat…………….:
If Christians could just read the bible and delete the references to God, Lord, Almighty, Satan, devil, these scapegoat metaphors from a lack of witnesses with knowledge, the supernatural references, it might open your mind to understanding.
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September 8, 2015 at 11:19 am
Re: Posts # 17 & 18: Practice what you preach. Corroborate your own opinions & assertions with valid substantiation.
On homosexual/same-sex practices; i.e., all forms of male-male and female-female intercourse in relation to Scripture:
http://www.robgagnon.net/HowBadIsHomosexualPractice.htm
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September 8, 2015 at 9:21 pm
The Parable of the Ten Virgins
…10″And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. 11″Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’ 12″But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’…
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September 9, 2015 at 8:51 am
Man Behind Blog `The Gay Catholic` Invited to Meet the Pope
by Tribune 1:59 mins
A Richmond Virginia man, Aaron Ledesma says his invitation to join Pope Francis in Washington D.C. was a complete surprise. Ledesma writes about his journey back to the church on his blog called The Gay Catholic as an openly gay man.
When asked what he would say to Pope Francis if he has the opportunity to speak to him Ledesma said he doesn’t want to talk about politics or gay marriage: “It all started when I was researching the internet for something inspirational for my Blog site and saw articles about the Pope was coming to the White House. I did some more digging and there was a contact form on the White House website.
“I would tell the Holy Father how much it means to see someone say, ‘You are loved. You are supported’. It’s a misconception; you can absolutely be Catholic and Gay.”
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/man-behind-blog-gay-catholic-141240395.html
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September 10, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Frank, regarding the dietary laws, I politely and wholeheartedly disagree with what 119 ministries is teaching. This is a law based approach to living which is inconsistent with walking by the Spirit of Christ and the New Covenant.
While 1 Tim 4 is misquoted to prove the dietary laws are still in force, I must ask what does Paul mean when he says “some will depart from the faith” ? What “faith” is he talking about ? Is he talking about the law of Moses here ? No, he is talking about the New Covenant faith that is in the person of Christ Jesus. Jesus is the end of the law to those that believe. The law was nailed to the cross with all its requirements and regulations when we died with Christ. Therefore nobody can judge me with regard to food and drink or a Sabbath day, and I’m not even Jewish ! The law was never even given to me (Gentile) in the first place.
With regards to Leviticus 11, the basis of the obligation to maintain the clean versus unclean distinction was the call of the Hebrews to be the special people of Yahweh. It was to he something in their daily life to remind them of the covenant which distinguished them from the nations of the world. By Jesus Christ it was revealed Mat 15:11 to the elect people that they were no longer to he tied by the letter of the Law in regard to their food, but were to be left to the exercise of a regenerated judgment. They were to learn that the kingdom of God is not eating, or abstaining from, meats and drinks; but righteousness, and truth, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit (Rom 14:17. Compare Act 10:15; 1Ti 4:4).
The Lord directly tells Peter in Acts 10:11-15 to kill and eat “forbidden” food. How do you reconcile that with saying that Leviticus 11 is not abolished ??
Frank, we must be careful not to give our unbelieving friends the idea that the gospel is about keeping laws, rules and regulations, especially dietary laws. The gospel is about a new birth, a fresh start, a clean slate and a new life in Christ. Our new life in Christ is radically different than living under the law of Moses. We cannot talk out of both sides of our mouth. As Christians, we are either under the law or we are not. You are either living by the Spirit or by the letter, which is it ? It can’t be both otherwise you frustrate the grace of God and bring Christ to open shame.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Naz
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September 10, 2015 at 10:37 pm
Naz,
I see the matter differently. Yahshua said, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” (John 14:15) Yahshua is the Word of God. (John 1:1-5) The Word of God, including the Law of God as given through Moses, doesn’t change and hasn’t been abolished. (Hebrews 13:8; Matthew 5:16-20) Yahshua is our perfect example of how to live in accord with God’s Law/Instructions. He kept the Sabbath, dietary instructions, the Feasts of Yahweh and the entire Torah during His life and ministry. If we believe in Him then we will walk the same way as He walks [1 John 1:7; 1 John 2:6]. Being Messiah He lived a sinless life. Yahshua upholds Yahweh’s Law. He never transgressed God’s Law. This in part explains how He was able to be propitiation for sin and provide for our redemption at the Cross [Philippians 2:1-13]. It was the law of sin and death that was nailed to the Cross at Golgotha, not the Law of God. Yahshua is the AIM/GOAL/COMPLETION of God’s Law not its end/termination/abolition. We are never to abandon God’s Word/Law/Instructions/Law of Moses. This is why Yahshua tells us, “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. … You are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.” (Matthew 5:10-13) Without God’s Law written in our hearts we cannot partake of the renewed covenant which Messiah came to fulfill [Jeremiah 31:33-37]. If you see the Law of God as bondage or not relevant to your life then you haven’t been paying attention. “So shall I keep Your law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. And I will delight myself in Your commandments, which I have loved. Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your law is truth.” (Psalm 119:44, 45, 47, 142) Yahshua prayed to the Father that we should be sanctified through His truth/law. (John 17:17) “As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before Yahweh. There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.” (Numbers 15:15-16) You may not be a Jew but whether you’re an Israelite or a gentile/alien grafted into the Body of Messiah Yahshua you’re most certainly a citizen in heaven. [Ephesians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:20-21].
“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)
119 Ministries can speak for themselves:
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September 11, 2015 at 8:49 am
In the beginning was the Word; that is, In the beginning was language. So language, Word (language) came in the beginning as the verbal representation of an invisible self that brought the invisible self out into to the open where it could give a visible expression of an invisible self intimately identified with the invisible spirit within.
Jesus described who and what he was, not John. “I am the way and the truth and the life.” & I am the resurrection and the life”. What Jesus never said was I am the Word John gave his opinion based on the Pharisaical nonsense of man’s social, custom, religion and tradition from one group of people who claimed that their laws and customs and practices were from their Godhead, to be the chosen people of the Godhead, bodily and among all people on the earth, their customs, religion, practices, traditions and culture superseded all other who were infidels insomuch as they would not even speak to Samaritans, the infidel gentiles of another culture, who worshiped the same apparent God on the Mountain Gerizim built by the God of Nature and not in the city built by self imposed God of men, Jerusalem. But that didn’t make it so as the bible relates time after time after time that the chosen people fell into disrepute and built golden calves to represent the true god of the people, food. That is all the Calves represented; it could have been a loaf of bread as Mahatma Ghandi put it: There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread. or sheep or calves or goats or fish or else.
“We are never to abandon God’s Word/Law/Instructions/Law of Moses.” WRONG!
HEBREWS 8:6-13 But Jesus’ priestly work far surpasses what these other priests do, since he’s working from a far better plan. If the first plan—the old covenant—had worked out, a second wouldn’t have been needed. But we know the first was found wanting, because God said,
Heads up! The days are coming
when I’ll set up a new plan
for dealing with Israel and Judah.
I’ll throw out the old plan
I set up with their ancestors
when I led them by the hand out of Egypt.
They didn’t keep their part of the bargain,
so I looked away and let it go.
This new plan I’m making with Israel
isn’t going to be written on paper,
isn’t going to be chiseled in stone;
This time I’m writing out the plan in them,
carving it on the lining of their hearts.
I’ll be their God,
they’ll be my people.
They won’t go to school to learn about me,
or buy a book called God in Five Easy Lessons.
They’ll all get to know me firsthand,
the little and the big, the small and the great.
They’ll get to know me by being kindly forgiven,
with the slate of their sins forever wiped clean.
By coming up with a new plan, a new covenant between God and his people, God put the old plan on the shelf. And there it stays, gathering dust.
“He kept the Sabbath”, WRONG!
Mark 2:23-28
23-24 One Sabbath day he was walking through a field of ripe grain. As his disciples made a path, they pulled off heads of grain. The Pharisees told on them to Jesus: “Look, your disciples are breaking Sabbath rules!”
25-28 Jesus said, “Really? Haven’t you ever read what David did when he was hungry, along with those who were with him? How he entered the sanctuary and ate fresh bread off the altar, with the Chief Priest Abiathar right there watching—holy bread that no one but priests were allowed to eat—and handed it out to his companions?” Then Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made to serve us; we weren’t made to serve the Sabbath. Therefore the man is master of the Sabbath.
(He kept) ” dietary laws and instructions”. WRONG:
7 1-4 The Pharisees, along with some religion scholars who had come from Jerusalem, gathered around him. They noticed that some of his disciples weren’t being careful with ritual washings before meals. The Pharisees—Jews in general, in fact—would never eat a meal without going through the motions of a ritual hand-washing, with an especially vigorous scrubbing if they had just come from the market (to say nothing of the scourings they’d give jugs and pots and pans).
5 The Pharisees and religion scholars asked, “Why do your disciples flout the rules, showing up at meals without washing their hands?”
6-8 Jesus answered, “Isaiah was right about frauds like you, hit the bull’s-eye in fact:
These people make a big show of saying the right thing,
but their heart isn’t in it.
They act like they are worshiping me,
but they don’t mean it.
They just use me as a cover
for teaching whatever suits their fancy,
Ditching God’s command
and taking up the latest fads.”
9-13 He went on, “Well, good for you. You get rid of God’s command so you won’t be inconvenienced in following the religious fashions! Moses said, ‘Respect your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone denouncing father or mother should be killed.’ But you weasel out of that by saying that it’s perfectly acceptable to say to father or mother, ‘Gift! What I owed you I’ve given as a gift to God,’ thus relieving yourselves of obligation to father or mother. You scratch out God’s Word and scrawl a whim in its place. You do a lot of things like this.”
14-15 Jesus called the crowd together again and said, “Listen now, all of you—take this to heart. It’s not what you swallow that pollutes your life; it’s what you vomit—that’s the real pollution.”
17 When he was back home after being with the crowd, his disciples said, “We don’t get it. Put it in plain language.”
18-19 Jesus said, “Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you see that what you swallow can’t contaminate you? It doesn’t enter your heart but your stomach, works its way through the intestines, and is finally flushed.” (That took care of dietary quibbling; Jesus was saying that all foods are fit to eat.)
20-23 He went on: “It’s what comes out of a person that pollutes: obscenities, lusts, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, depravity, deceptive dealings, carousing, mean looks, slander, arrogance, foolishness—all these are vomit from the heart. There is the source of your pollution.”
Frank: “you haven’t been paying attention” RIGHT.
You’re mired in the ancient traditions of men claiming the traditions as of God and that’s why you rarely quote Jesus……… but the ancients, OMG you’re all over the place when it comes to quoting the outdated laws and instructions that are on the shelf gathering dust from the ancients…..
The tradition was that Jews (God’s Law) as you would say:
John 4:7-8 A woman, a Samaritan, came to draw water. Jesus said, “Would you give me a drink of water?” (His disciples had gone to the village to buy food for lunch.)
9 The Samaritan woman, taken aback, asked, “How come you, a Jew, are asking me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?” (Jews in those days wouldn’t be caught dead talking to Samaritans for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Why?
Before his death, Jacob gave Joseph a blessing in which he called him a “fruitful bough by a well” (Gen. 49:22). The blessing was fulfilled, as the territory allotted to the tribes of Joseph’s two sons, Ephraim (“doubly fruitful”) and Manasseh, was the fertile land that eventually became Samaria.
Later, Israel divided into two kingdoms. The northern kingdom, called Israel, established its capital first at Shechem, a revered site in Jewish history, and later at the hilltop city of Samaria.
In 722 B.C. Assyria conquered Israel and took most of its people into captivity. The invaders then brought in Gentile colonists “from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim” (2 Kin. 17:24) to resettle the land. The foreigners brought with them their pagan idols, which the remaining Jews began to worship alongside the God of Israel (2 Kin. 17:29-41). Intermarriages also took place (Ezra 9:1-10:44;Neh. 13:23-28 ).
Meanwhile, the southern kingdom of Judah fell to Babylon in 600 B.C. Its people, too, were carried off into captivity. But 70 years later, a remnant of 43,000 was permitted to return and rebuild Jerusalem. The people who now inhabited the former northern kingdom—the Samaritans—vigorously opposed the repatriation and tried to undermine the attempt to reestablish the nation. For their part, the full-blooded, monotheistic Jews detested the mixed marriages and worship of their northern cousins. So walls of bitterness were erected on both sides and did nothing but harden for the next 550 years.
There are countless modern parallels to the Jewish-Samaritan enmity—indeed, wherever peoples are divided by racial and ethnic barriers. Perhaps that’s why the Gospels and Acts provide so many instances of Samaritans coming into contact with the message of Jesus. It is not the person from the radically different culture on the other side of the world that is hardest to love, but the nearby neighbor whose skin color, language, rituals, values, ancestry, history, and customs are different from one’s own.
Worship in spirit and in truth, that is the true worship desired by the Father within you.The traditions customs, rituals, sacrifices, sabbaths and the like mean nothing since Jesus relieved the world of those fruitless traditions, yet there are countless Christians who do contrary to Jesus’ teachings because they labor still under the laws of Pharisaical interpretation….that sneaked into the following of Jesus and hijacked the new by re-substituting the old and calling on 119 ministries to take you back to Genesis, Deuteronomy, Leviticus and Psalms.
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September 11, 2015 at 12:25 pm
Frank, thank you for your detailed reply. According to what your are saying we are to keep all of God’s laws and instructions as written in the law of Moses. Is this what you are saying ? I will assume yes.
Jesus did more than just show us how to live according to God’s law, He raised the bar for those who truly wanted to live by the spirit of God’s Law.
Jesus raised the bar and introduced us to “Moses 2.0”. He taught us that it’s not just the act of sin that is sinful but the thoughts in the heart as well. He showed us the problem is of the heart so that even when we lust after a woman we have committed the sin of adultery in our heart. He taught us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. He taught us that we should cut off our limbs, pluck out our eye, if they cause us to sin so we don’t go to hell. He taught us that God will only forgive us if we forgive others first. He taught the rich among us should sell everything they have if they want to follow Him.
So what was Jesus’ intention in teaching this way ? In the statements above is He teaching the gospel message ? Does the gospel teach us that we receive forgiveness only after we forgive others ? Who was He speaking to ? Was He speaking to Gentiles or Jews ? Who was under the Law at that time ?
Jesus was born under the Law and lived under the Law at a time before the New Covenant took effect. The New Covenant took effect after His death on the cross so before that time His teaching was a mixture of Law based teaching (Moses 2.0) and kingdom based teaching (grace and peace) looking forward to the New Testament era.
The purpose of “Moses 2.0” was to bury people under the full weight of God’s Law so they can understand and see that they cannot keep the Law of God perfectly. It was to drive people to Christ and His grace and forgiveness that would become available under the New Covenant.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The verse above states that the “handwriting of ordinances that was against us” was nailed to the cross. In essence it was what you said referring to the law of sin and death. What causes sin and death, God’s Law does. Paul said “apart from the Law, sin is dead”.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
The glory of the Law of Moses has been done away with in Christ. Don’t be offended but this is for your good and mine. The Law is called the ministry of death engraved in stones. What was written on stones, the 10 commandments or course ! Yes, the entire Law including the top 10 are done away with in Christ ! What do I mean by this…that is we are not subject to or obligated in any way to follow Law based living. The law (even for Gentiles who are a law unto themselves) is for transgressors (unbelievers) and not for us, we are set free my friend ! We live by the Spirit and the Spirit leads us into righteousness. The Law entices sin, Paul did not know envy if it were not for the Law. I am not trying to disparage God’s Law because we know God’s Law is holy and good. However ,with the Law comes judgment and condemnation if you don’t keep it 100%, that includes all the moral commands (including the top 10), the dietary laws, the dress code, priesthood etc….
As for the priesthood…..
Heb 7:11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
Heb 7:13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
Heb 7:15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,
Heb 7:16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.
Heb 7:17 For it is witnessed of him, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
Heb 7:18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness
Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.
Looks like God’s unchanging Law has changed….surely the character and goodness of God never changes, He (Jesus Christ) is the same yesterday, today and forever. The former commandment is “weak and useless”, why? Because it cannot save you and me, it can only judge us guilty and send us to hell. Thank God for a better hope that is found in Christ Jesus !
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”
Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
God is not going to re-write the law of Moses in our minds and hearts. Why would God write the ministry of death on our new hearts ? It doesn’t make sense. This is a spiritual transaction which takes place when a person comes to faith in Jesus. It’s the Spirit that gives life and it’s through the Spirit that God communicates to us His laws and His ways through Jesus Christ.
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Naz
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September 12, 2015 at 8:52 am
The Law says “Thou shalt wear a seat belt when driving in a motor vehicle. Do you drive? Do you wear a seat belt? And if you wear a seat belt do you wear it because it’s the Law or do you wear it because the penalty for not wearing a seat belt is the punishment of having to pay money, for not following, not obeying the Law?
Seat Belt Laws
Seat belt laws are divided into two categories: primary and secondary. Primary seat belt laws allow law enforcement officers to ticket a driver or passenger for not wearing a seat belt, without any other traffic offense taking place. Secondary seat belt laws state that law enforcement officers may issue a ticket for not wearing a seat belt only when there is another citable traffic infraction.
34 states, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands have primary seat belt laws for front seat occupants.
15 states have secondary laws. In many of these states, the law is primary for younger drivers and/or passengers.
New Hampshire has enacted neither a primary nor a secondary seat belt law for adults, although the state does have a primary child passenger safety law that covers all drivers and passengers under 18.
Rear Seats: 28 states, D.C., Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands, have laws requiring belt use for all rear seat passengers. In 17 of these states, D.C., Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands, the law is primary.
The point is that the Seat Belt Law is like the God Laws of the ancient texts. You obey the Laws or you are punished.
The reason that the Law is made for unbelievers, for the disobedient, the unrighteous is because of their rebellion. As an example, when I get in my car and drive, the Seat Belt Law is not made for me nor does the punishment deter me from not wearing the seat belt. I have never given the Law or the punishment a second thought. Why? I wear a seat belt because it’s the right thing to do and in my spirit I fasten up immediately before the car moves, if on some rare occasion I forget to fasten up, as soon as the vehicle moves I feel naked. The spirit has trained me up that way since the seat belts were first introduced in motor vehicles.
The bible talks about this a little differently, a little more philosophically: Often we hear this argument in an effort to belittle the law of God: “Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer.” Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? The text is found in Romans 6:14, 15. “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? – No! Of course not!
As with the seat belt Law, it’s the right things we do that render us free from the Law and the punishment thereof. Those who never give such things a second thought are free from the power of the Law and operate under Grace and Truth that came through the Master Demonstrator, Jesus. Jesus did not abolish the Law but fulfilled it, not because it was the Law or because of the punishment for disobedience to the Law but because it was the right thing to do; it was written in his heart and in his spirit. Jesus conveyed this time and time again to his followers, that the Law is written in our hearts and minds; it’s the Law the Father that wants us to practice, to worship in spirit and in truth, not in ritualism, not by visiting a piece of Real Estate once or twice a week or five times a day but that Law, written in the hearts and minds; “Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus that governs you by Grace and Truth that equals Righteousness.
ENGINEERED EVOLUTION by the Father:
Remember man was engineered in such a way that he would be inhabited by the Father so that the Father at all times would be the origin of what he does and says and is. But cannot, will not and does not, unless you let him. That’s why the next principle is very obvious. You’ll find it in Hebrews 11, verse 6. Without faith, it is impossible to please him. Your supreme criterion that makes you man from the Father’s point of view, that you please him but without faith it is impossible to please him. So faith isn’t optional, faith isn’t a matter of taste, faith isn’t up for grabs, faith is a disposition, the mind that was in Christ Jesus. Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who let the Father do it. And in that he, the Father created you in such a way that only his presence imparts to you the moral capacity to implement his purpose in making you man, to reveal his likeness, he in you teaching your mind, he in you controlling your emotions, he in you directing your will, he in you governing your behavior, because you let him, but without faith that lets him be the Father in the man you cannot please him. That’s why it’s absolutely imperative that you understand the nature of faith.
And very few Christians understand the nature of faith. Because we’re constantly being brainwashed into the idea that the more you are in the rat race, the more you rush around doing things for God the more you’re demonstrating your faith in God; diametrically opposed to the truth. The more you try to do for God the more you’re demonstrating, not your faith in God, but your faith in yourself.
Faith is a disposition that invokes the activity of a second party; it brings somebody, something, into action on your behalf. As I’ve explained to some of you in past post conversations: You’re exercising faith at this moment in the seat that supports your weight.
What’s your faith doing for that seat? Nothing! Except let it be a bench, on your behalf. It isn’t your faith that supporting your weight, it’s the chair.
If you want your appendix out you choose a surgeon you can trust; how do you demonstrate your faith in the surgeon? Who gets on the job? Who takes the tools? Do you carve him up or does he carve you up? When you put your faith in the surgeon, he gets into action.
When I get on board a plane and fly, my faith does nothing for the pilot, nothing for the airline, nothing for ground crew, nothing for radar; my faith simply lets all the resources of that airline, including the pilot, be mobilized on my behalf to get me from one place to another place. My faith lets somebody else get into action.
That’s why, never congratulate a man on his faith, that’s sheer stupidity. Faith never made a man great. Faith is simply that disposition that allows the Father to be as big as the Father is, in a man, that’s all. Congratulate Him. The one who’s BE-ing.
Faith is like the clutch on a gear shift continental sports car. You could put your foot on the gas, rev the engine until every last window in the district is vibrating with the noise and the whole city lost in a cloud of dust. But if you don’t let the clutch out where will you be when you take your foot off the gas and the dust has settled? Exactly where you started! Because all the clutch does is relate the engine and the power under the hood to the wheels on the road. But the clutch doesn’t drive the car. Can you imagine a kid with his friend, open sports car, zooming down the road, nobody looking, 30, 50, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 miles an hour, wind streaming through his hair and he turns to his friend and says man….man..he says, what a clutch! Well you’d say don’t be so stupid. You’d say Man…what an engine!. All the clutch is doing is letting the engine be an engine.
And all that faith does in terms of your relationship to Jesus Christ is to allow him to move redemptively into your experience and reconcile you to the Father. If you don’t put your trust in Christ, he’s still the redeemer but you won’t know it.
And if you’re worried about your faith in Jesus Christ, there’s one cure: get acquainted. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of the Father. The Father’s word so that you can know him of whom it testifies.
Faith brings you to truth and truth to knowledge and knowledge to…understanding. It comes from giving the Father time enough, to talk to you long enough until at last you KNOW enough and that’s the only cure for ignorance, knowledge”
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September 13, 2015 at 2:58 pm
Naz,
“But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.” (Luke 16:17) The Book of Deuteronomy teaches that the Law/Torah contains blessings and curses [Deuteronomy 28; 30:1-5]. “Moreover, Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. And you shall again obey Yahweh, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.” (Deuteronomy 30:6, 8) Yahshua Messiah came to fulfill Scripture so that these things be so. He came to free us from the curse of the law through redemption [Galatians 3:1-29] not to in any way undo God’s Law. It’s written in Luke 24:44-49 where Yahshua tells us, “Thus it is written, that the Messiah would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed on the basis of His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” We are to turn from sin/transgression/disobedience/rebellion against God’s Law to God seeking His forgiveness, lovingkindness, mercy and grace; that being found in Messiah Yahshua. He also tells us, He’s “sending forth the promise of My Father upon you;” the Spirit of Truth [John 14:26]. Nowhere in Scripture does Yahshua or Paul for that matter say Messiah’s abolishing God’s Word/Truth/Law/Instructions/Torah. In fact quite the contrary for Yahshua Messiah declares, “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and disclose Myself to him. If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you.” (John 14:21, 23-25)
“If you consent and obey, you will eat the best of the land;” (Isaiah 1:19)
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September 13, 2015 at 3:41 pm
WHY GIVE A NEW COMMAND IF THE OLD LAW WAS THE SAME AND IF IT WAS WORKING? THE LAWS WERE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS, CUSTOMS, TRADITION AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD OTHER THAN PINNING THE LAWS ON HIM AND THEREBY EXONERATING THE WRITERS OF THE LAWS.
A New Command I Give You.
…33″Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ 34″A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35″By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Cross References
Leviticus 19:18
“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
John 15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:17
This is my command: Love each other.
Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.
Romans 13:8
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Ephesians 5:2
and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Hebrews 13:1
Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters.
1 Peter 1:22
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.
I sometimes think that if Satan existed, he couldn’t devise a better way of keeping humanity in chains than by encouraging the blind, uncritical veneration of scripture and the fossilization of human thought.
So without wishing to be too rude about it I want to say something now to a handful of people who insist on sending, sometimes quite lengthy passages, of scripture. You probably know who you are. Well maybe you don’t, maybe that’s part of the problem here but I don’t understand why you do this.
The time it takes you to copy and paste that fantasy fiction and send it to me is time you could be spending far more profitably doing something you enjoy, oh I don’t know, flagellating yourself perhaps or rending your garments, gnashing your teeth, prostrating yourself before a crucifix and crying your eyes out for hours on end. Whatever it is you normally do to relax and unwind.
On the other hand if it’s a genuine neurotic problem that you’ve got, some kind of obsessive, compulsive disorder, well obviously, that’s different, then I do sympathize, please carry on sending as much scripture as you like.
But consulting a trained mental health professional might also be quite a good idea because scripture is not reality. I’m sorry to be the one to break the bad news, it’s just scripture I’m afraid. What’s being divinely revealed hasn’t been revealed at all. It’s been imagined.
And if that’s all you’ve got to support your particular version of reality and the god who supposedly created it, well then I would suggest that your God in fact is a false God and every time you proclaim him you merely proclaim yourself, deceived, like the village idiot who walks around blowing a whistle at people because he thinks it makes him important when all it does is single him out as the village idiot.
I also get quite a lot of emails from secret atheists, people who live in the American Bible Belt and who tell me that they would literally lose their livelihood if the ignoramuses around them knew that they didn’t believe in the tribal god of the ancient Judean desert.
In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if there were as many secret atheists in the bible belt as there are secret homosexuals in Saudi Arabia. Well it’s just that with all the available women in that country safely under lock and key where they belong, all those poor studs can turn to is porn or each other. Let’s be realistic.
But both of these unfortunate groups, the secret atheists and the secret homosexuals, are victims of other people’s rigid interpretation of scripture because scripture gives us license, if we are that way inclined, to show the very worse of ourselves and to behave in ways we might otherwise be ashamed of if we had any decency about us.
There’s nothing you can’t read into it or take from it. So whatever nasty little attitude that you harbor toward your fellow man, will find justification in scripture because, like the sands of the desert, fixed and immutable, yet, ever shifting the words of god are infinitely versatile. Open that book and watch them dance across the page like ninjas, each one a soldier for you and your petty prejudices.
But don’t make the mistake of thinking you can blame scripture for your opinions. You can seek refuge in it as many hypocrites do but you can’t hide behind it. Because scripture depends on interpretation, because it is so ambiguous, the way you choose to interpret it, reveals who you are in your heart, so in that sense it’s not a shield at all. It’s a spotlight that shows up an evil heart like an x-ray.
As with those hard line Saudi clerics for example, who take sadistic pleasure interpreting the Koran as cruelly as possible, they merely reveal themselves for the blood thirsty monsters that they are and advertise to the world the darkness in their petty little souls and their pitiful inadequacy as men.
Right now the Anglican Church is tearing itself apart because some people again have taken refuge in scripture as an excuse for prejudice against women and homosexuals. In any other walk of life in the civilized world this would be prosecuted as a crime. Because scripture legitimizes it, implying that it’s the result of profound reflection when in fact it’s just a grubby front for chauvinism and ignorance.
Which brings me back to the bible belt. Widely recognized of course as an area of outstanding natural stupidity, and with very good reason, especially when you consider the millions of dollars that have been spent in building creation museums. Just think of the psychotherapy that money could have paid for.
Creation musems are the latest symptom of the insanity to hit the United States and they are of course inspired 100 percent by scripture. At the moment they seem to be popping up like mushrooms in a spontaneous eruption of life ironically enough all over the land of the free and beyond, now.
These are places of education where Christian children can go to learn the truth, that their parents are morons and quite possibly insane. They learn that Adam and Eve, not only existed,
in all their Disney-like, fig-leaf, apple chomping way but they rode around the place on dinosaurs. Hell they probably even had rodeos, well why not, they were Christians weren’t they?
The dinosaurs of course died out eventually and well who could be surprised look at the company they had to keep. Although one dinosaur is still with us unfortunately. And that is creationism’s very own, Ignoramus Rex. A small brain creature with a hard outer shell, impervious to reason, feeds exclusively on scripture and its copious droppings have not only been used to build these museums but can serve as a useful metaphor for everything in them.
If you’ve got a head full of scripture then what you’ve got is a head full of ideas that have stopped growing; that’ll be a head full of dead ideas then. And you have no right to have those ideas respected or taken seriously. You’re simply not entitled to it and you’ve certainly got no business using them to tell other people how they should live their lives because you don’t know anything.
If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, scripture is the first refuge of the Ignoramus. You can study it for years without learning anything but you will end up with a lot to say for yourself. And it will all amount to the same thing: Talk to the scripture ’cause the brain ain’t listening. pcondell
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September 13, 2015 at 3:50 pm
I am always amazed that nobody in Christendom defends the following scripture as the Law but every time I bring it up there is a deafening silence and yet it is written that women need to shgut up in church.
Orderly Worship
1 Corinthians 14:…33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34-36 Wives must not disrupt worship, talking when they should be listening, asking questions that could more appropriately be asked of their husbands at home. God’s Book of the law guides our manners and customs here. Wives have no license to use the time of worship for unwarranted speaking. Do you—both women and men—imagine that you’re a sacred oracle determining what’s right and wrong? Do you think everything revolves around you?
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September 14, 2015 at 8:16 am
Frank, I think we are misunderstanding each other here. While the law was our Tutor before Christ, it serves no purpose for us now. The Law is for unbelievers since they are still subject to it because they refuse to believe in salvation by faith through Jesus Christ. The law is still at work in the world and will judge and condemn to hell all those who refuse God’s gracious gift of eternal life. I am not a law hater, in fact, I hold the law in such high regard I have admitted to God that I cannot keep it and that I need Him to save me from this body of death. Hence the need for Jesus…..
What I am trying to say is that the way in which we relate to God is not law based any more. It is through the Spirit of Christ who lives in us that we relate to God. Jesus’ new commandments are that we believe on the Son of God and love each other as HE has loved us. Notice, that our “work” flows out of what God has done, not based on our futile and pitiful efforts in trying to keep commandments. Our task is to believe and let the love of Christ flow through us, it is not trying to keep the 613 commandments of the Torah. If we keep the entire law and fail on one point, we are guilty of the whole law. So if you take God’s law exam and get 612 out of 613 correct, you fail and go to hell ! That is the end result of law based living.
The spirit of Christ will not lead me to commit sin (break the law), however, the spirit of Christ will also not lead to refrain from cutting my lawn on Saturday or eating pork chops. It is not what goes into the body that is sin but what comes out of the heart.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
There is a new “law”, the law of the Spirit of life. Notice in verse 3 it is what “GOD HAS DONE”.
We need to stop focusing on what we are doing and look at what GOD HAS DONE.
We are off the hook because of what God has done and more importantly than that, God has rigged the game by giving us His Spirit to live in us. Instead of spending our lives in anxiety trying to obey commands and trying to justify ourselves before God, we need to spend our time growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. That is, grow in our understanding of the great gift He has given us and just wake up every morning and say “thank you” !
Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Naz
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September 14, 2015 at 11:50 am
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
We are no longer under the Law (guardian, Tutor).
Any way one interprets this cannot nullify the fact that we are not subject to, supervised by or judged by the Law if we are in Christ. We are dead to it even as Paul himself said.
If we take the laws of the land as an example, I am still subject to the speeding law, since if I speed I will be judged guilty, get a ticket and pay a fine. The governing bodies do not provide me any mediator, I must pay the price.
On the other hand, if I break any of God’s Law (and I have), I am not subject to any judgment or punishment. Jesus took that for me, past, present and future. I am free from the Law and it’s judgments, punishments and condemnation.
Thank you Jesus !
Naz
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September 14, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Oh by the way, they can keep or take away homosexuality from the so called sin list if they want….I could care less…
I am growing tired talking and reading about sins….let’s talk about our great God and Savior instead.
Naz
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September 14, 2015 at 2:07 pm
Some good blogs on the topic of the what laws are written on our hearts.
Naz
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September 14, 2015 at 7:59 pm
Naz,
Whoever believes that Yahshua is the Messiah is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Yahshua is the Son of God? (1 John 5:1-5)
Salvation comes by faith in Yahshua Messiah. Our faith evinces our obedience to God. Obedience evinces our humility to Him [Philippians 2:1-11]. “Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:4)
One of them, an expert in the Mosaic Law, asked Him a question, testing Him, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to Him, ” ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YAHWEH YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ “This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:35-40)
Paul wrote to the Galatians, “You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ ” (Galatians 5:7-14)
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September 15, 2015 at 6:44 am
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
What are the commandments John is speaking of in 1John 5 ? Is it the law of Moses ? Certainly not !
1John 3 above is a similar passage and it clearly states what commandments John is talking about in his letters.
“… that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us…”
My obedience to God is not based on the law of Moses. I don’t go around every day with a check list to make sure I have satisfied all 613 commandments of the Torah. I am not under the law nor subject to the law of Moses because the old covenant has been superseded by the new covenant. The new covenant makes me perfect in Christ, the old covenant was not capable of doing that because everything was based on my effort and my performance.
Galatians 5:7-14 is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Look at the first 6 verses that you omitted from your post.
Gal 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.
Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
The Galatians are a picture of what you believe Frank. Paul chastised them for going back to the law of Moses because they were demanding circumcision.
Why are you submitting to a yoke of slavery and falling from grace ? Do you not realize by upholding the law of Moses you are denying the Lord Jesus Christ Himself !
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
I hope God can open up your understanding of what I am trying to say. i encourage you to do an in depth study of the new covenant and to study the difference between law and grace. As for 119 ministries, I don’t know if you are affiliated with them but these ministries are a “dime a dozen”, sorry. They are leading you astray and back to Moses instead of toward Jesus.
Naz
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September 15, 2015 at 8:18 am
HOW THE LAW OF MOSES EVOLVED INTO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS:
PREAMBLE
Regarding the Ten Observations.
Use your imagination for a moment.
Here we are 6, 7, 10, 100,000 thousand years ago, no one knew what the heck thunder was except it was the caricature concept of the god myth Thor, pounding his hammer in displeasure at the behavior of the human race in the cave mode society and all hell’s breaking loose.
You’ve got people kicking and shoving, spitting and gouging and getting their come-up-ins and the whole society is in an uproar without a system of containment; it’s every man for himself, dog eat dog and everyone getting while the getting’s good.
Imagine for a moment that you are in this scenario and wondering what is going on and why are people going crazy, it seems, and no one has any more sense than the next guy. Surely this is a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye mentality and why wouldn’t it be; after all, who knew any better how to handle life when it seems to come upon the human race suddenly?
THE TEN OBSERVATIONS
[ 1 ] IN WALKS Moses. Whoa fellow, hold on and let’s assess what’s happening here dude.
[ 2 ] LET US figure this scene out as the current way is just too crazy and makes no sense.
[ 3 ] SO MOSES did some thinking and decided to do a survey. That was the beginning of keeping records.
[ 4 ] WHICH today is the truest indication of a civilized society. Why?
Why was Moses bothered by this?
Moses wanted to determine the root causes of all the violence in society; what things people did that caused retribution and killing and maiming and utter chaos it seemed, all around in the community in their daily lives.
There’s got to be some way to understand the workings of the human mind so as to adjust and live in harmony and peace, thought Moses, but what did that magic might look like?
SO MOSES SCRATCHED his head and determined he would research by thinking with God the cause of the havoc in society; in particular, Moses wanted to explore why there were so many capital penalties taking place, it came to Moses and he knew what he had to do. The answer must come direct from the God and so Moses THOUGHT GOD. In those days all thoughts, it was thought, came from God to God’s representatives and Moses gave quiet thanks for the thought that was leading him this day to go on a retreat in the mountain.
On top of Mt Sinai one could get closer to the spirit as one surveyed the vast expanse of land. The Mountain was like being in the desert or being alone on the seashore where one’s mind could get away from the bombardment of daily life. Looking out over the expanse Moses thought about life and death, not so much about birth and natural death as much as about the life and unnatural and untimely death of the citizens by the hand of their fellows.
Moses could have been the precursor to the David Letterman’s The Late Show with a list of the TOP TEN REASONS FOR………….
So Moses began concentrating on the top ten reasons that people kill each other. Number One Moses reasoned was when people rebelled against religious teachings that dictated the way to live; you must believe and love the Lord thy God with your whole heart and soul and spirit and mind and if you did not accept that you were cursed and put to death, much like Muslims do today if you convert to another religion like Christianity for example, or deny the true spirit of Islam, for that is a blasphemy the ego of men will not allow.
The number one reason then for untimely death was people denying god and not only denying but setting up their own statues of worship and idol…Idols of animals representing the beast of labor for the harvest and food and idols of women representing the natural evolution of life, in birth, by a woman, as in the case 2000 years ago when Diana was the idol of choice for worship and fed the economy as people flocked to the ancient Dollar Stores to get their Diana statues and bookmarks and prayer beads like the Bible Stores you see today selling religious wares and medals and statues of their modern day religious idols.
Tradition says that Diana was born in the woods near Ephesus, where her temple was built, when her image of wood (possibly ebony; Pliny, NH, xvi. 40; Acts 19:35) fell from the sky (see also ASTRONOMY, sec. I, 8 (2)). Also according to tradition the city which was later called Ephesus was founded by the Amazons, and Diana or Cybele was the deity of those half-mythical people. Later when Ephesus fell into the possession of the Greeks, Greek civilization partly supplanted the Asiatic, and in that city the two civilizations were blended together. The Greek name of Artemis was given to the Asiatic goddess, and many of the Greek colonists represented her on their coins as Greek. Her images and forms of worship remained more Asiatic than Greek Her earliest statues were figures crudely carved in wood. Later when she was represented in stone and metals, she bore upon her head a mural headdress, representing a fortified city wall; from it, drapery hung upon each side of her face to her shoulders. The upper part of her body was completely covered with rows of breasts to signify that she was the mother of all life. The lower arms were extended. The lower part of the body resembled a rough block, as if her legs had been wrapped up in cloth like those of an Egyptian mummy. In later times her Greek followers represented her with stags or lions standing at her sides. The most renowned of her statues stood on the platform before the entrance to her temple in Ephesus. As the statues indicate, she impersonated the reproductive powers of men and of animals and of all other life.
Many merchants became wealthy buying and selling the idols of choice but alas in the days of Moses, you could pay with your life if you were found out worshipping banned idols. The Number one REASON FOR AN UNTIMELY DEATH MOSES OBSERVED, WAS SIMPLY THAT.
And so Moses penned his Observation in such a way as to be a caution to the people that they ought not to do such things if they valued their life from the religious zealots (this zeal for religious adherence is still present in the Middle East as temples and buildings are destroyed and people killed) so Observation number one was written in a way to suggest that.
AND thus the First OBSERVATION was written as a preventative religious caution:
1. I AM THE LORD THY GOD. THOU SHALT NOT HAVE FALSE GODS
BEFORE ME. THOU SHALT NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF AN IDOL.
I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
you shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that represents anything in heaven above, or represented on the earth beneath, or that is represented in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,
but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
THE TEN OBSERVATIONS cont’d:
IN KEEPING WITH religious tradition and teachings the name of God was considered so sacred that even to speak the name was blasphemous, as it is in Israel today the name of God is still considered so sacred they are not allowed to speak the name; therefore, Moses noted that using the name of god for wrongful purpose, was punished by death and not only wrongful use but to associate its use for one’s own vanity; i.e., to sell merchandise for example as the Holy Waters that heal you, “so saith the Lord”.
As merchants still today sell their wares in the name of Jesus.
That, Moses observed, was punished by death and scoundrels who did that were being slaughtered everyday in almost the same proportion as those who worshipped false gods. Therefore he wrote his second religious caution to mankind.
2. THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF YOUR GOD IN VAIN.
you shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
THERE WAS A DAY of the week which must be set aside for the sole purpose of recognizing God. On that day one is forbidden to work and all commerce must seize and you must spend that day in humble prayer and reflection on the great god who gave you life— disobey that and you will die an untimely death and thus Moses’s third observation for a man’s untimely death he cautioned was the religious observation:
3. REMEMBER THOU THEREFORE TO KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH DAY.
Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
for six days you shall labor and do all your work.
But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
NEXT TO BEING thankful to God for giving you life it was an obligation to give similar respect to your parents through whom god chose to bring you into the world and therefore anyone disrespecting their parents, speaking against them or doing any behavior that would dishonor them or bring shame upon them was a great sin and many people were killed in fits of anger against their parents especially rebellious youth. Such was a Fourth Observation laid out that Moses noted caused the untimely death of many a lad and lass. The fourth observation then as Moses thought about untimely deaths in society was disrespect, dishonor and shame to parents so he penned the 4th observation thusly:
4. HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER.
Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
MOSES ALSO NOTED that when people killed other members of society because those members violated the religious and cultural traditions of the first four observations, the killing was justified and the killers were never prosecuted.
Killing people who did not violate those rules, he noted however, was not acceptable. When a man slayed a victim out of road rage, let’s say, when someone was walking too slow along the pathway to the marketplace or lay in wait as a robber which caused his untimely death, that surely was a reason to kill that fellow who slew his neighbor.
And so Moses noted that many untimely deaths were caused if one killed someone for no apparent good religious reason; these killers were themselves put to death as the rule was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and a death for a death. So even though you may dislike the next door neighbor and you hate his guts, don’t kill him or else you yourself will face a similar fate. Yes thought Moses. that indeed is a cause of many deaths in society so he observed that caution Observation 5 must be:
5 THOU SHALT NOT KILL.
And so it was that the further cautions 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 were for social transgressions
It was growing dark and Moses had enough for the day. He pondered his writings, had a tea leaf drink heated over a hot fire, a bedtime snack, fed some hay and straw to his faithful mule his mobility asset traveling with him and bedded down for a night’s sleep next to the campfire after a day’s work.
Moses was always amazed watching the shadow of night slowly hovering and eventually covering the village while the sun still shone upon him high in the mountain retreat. He pulled over the blankets covering himself from the cool mountain night air and like a little baby fell fast to sleep under the never ending twinkling little stars.
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September 15, 2015 at 1:19 pm
Naz,
Regarding posts # 21, 24, 29, 30, 34 —
In the interest of clarity; The Jerusalem Council: Legalism vs. Obedience
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September 15, 2015 at 2:37 pm
Naz,
We live in a fallen world therefore, “Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. … Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that Yahshua, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 1:3-5)
The Law of God & “Paul, a servant of Yahshua Messiah, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, … concerning His Son Yahshua Messiah our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; … by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for His name: among whom are ye also the called of Yahshua Messiah:” (Romans 1:1-6):
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September 15, 2015 at 4:16 pm
Naz,
“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.” (Luke 16:16,17)
The Law of God & The Two Witnesses:
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September 15, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Naz,
And they remembered that God was their rock, and the Most High God their Redeemer. (Psalm 78:35)
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September 16, 2015 at 6:56 am
Frank, regarding post 37, you quote Jude to me. What is the intent of quoting that scripture to me ? Are you trying to condemn me ?
Please clarify. It would be better if you spoke of your own words instead of just quoting scripture alone and posting videos. I don’t know what you are trying to say. 119 ministries can speak for themselves and so should you. I am trying to talk to Frank not 119 ministries so stand like a man and speak what you believe.
Please answer me this question only without using videos or scripture, am I committing a sin if I cut my lawn on Saturday and if I do not refrain from doing this do you believe I will go to hell ?
Naz
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September 16, 2015 at 10:48 am
Naz & Frank. First, bravo to you both for ignoring Leo and focusing your comments on each other. The instant I see his name or variations thereof, I ignore them and move on. That’s the best way to deal with a troll. Don’t read his garbage and don’t reply to him.
Second, my above comments notwithstanding, your debate is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. If I understand you correctly, you both agree that homosexuality is a sin. The topic is about forcing Christians to abandon their beliefs in that regard. This is not a thread about the Law of Moses.
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September 16, 2015 at 11:26 am
Scalia:
To turn a phrase:
“I contend that for Scalia to try and identify sin is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”
If you have a problem with my comments then comment on the comments instead of hurling insults which I believe is not the topic of this post either.
If you have nothing to say; and, you have nothing to say, except “troll” and “ignore”, then why bother? as per Proverbs 26:5, you would do wonders for that hospitable “love your enemies” instruction by limiting your extraneous comments to the topic at hand.
People of all stripes SHOULD be enjoined to abandon the idea that homosexuality is a sin because sin, as YOU see it, is a matter of choice; what you view as sin, troll or ignorance, are in the eye of the beholder.
LEO
THE TRUTH FAIRY
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September 16, 2015 at 11:57 am
If you value freedom, you should flee from religion as the antelope flees the lion. Religion is the very antithesis of freedom, insisting on our complete subjugation to the unachievable demands of an invisible but supremely powerful overlord.
The Abrahamic god even enthusiastically endorses the vilest of all negations of freedom: slavery. In Leviticus 25, there is a direct quote from this supposedly perfect deity, specifically permitting the Israelites to take and keep slaves, the only proviso being that they must be from the neighboring tribes and not from their own people. Straight from the horse’s mouth, as it were, and hardly a shining example of freedom as a religious ideal.
Lev 25:44-46 “The male and female slaves which you have are to come from the surrounding nations; you are permitted to buy slaves from them. You may also buy the children of foreign workers who are living among you temporarily and from their clans which are living among you and have been born in your land. They become your property. You may will them to your children as property and make them slaves for life. But you must not tyrannize your brother Israelites.
True freedom requires us to liberate ourselves from the tyranny of religion as well as from the tyranny of brutal earthly regimes.
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September 17, 2015 at 6:26 am
Scalia, you’re correct, Frank and I are way off topic. We are guilty for breaking that rule (law).
Naz
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September 17, 2015 at 4:42 pm
OMG that is so ridiculous; I hope Frank will not capitulate so easily to Scalia’s Pharisaical stupidism. On the other hand, Naz makes much more sense than Scalia ever makes in Scalia’s outer limit, fiction-based stupidism.
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September 17, 2015 at 4:47 pm
OMG:
Naz, you must feel so “forgiven” by Scalia one of the worse contributors to any post!.
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September 17, 2015 at 5:02 pm
Leo, Scalia and I were debating long before you came on the scene. I whipped his butt in a Jesus Name baptism argument that to this day remains a classic 🙂
He’s all right in my book…..
Naz
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September 17, 2015 at 8:01 pm
Naz,
The reason I wrote the Scripture from Jude in my post was to urge you to re-evaluate your position on faith vs. works and “contend for the faith”. In answer to your question I don’t condemn you at all. I consider you a brother in Messiah. I would hope we might learn from each other. We may not always agree but I should think we could disagree respectfully. There are times when I’ll cite a video in my post or an article from online simply as a means of providing further illumination on my reasoning. This is the information age and I am using the internet to convey my messages by the most concise means possible.
– Frank
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September 17, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Are we to conclude we are not to abide by God’s Law/Torah/Instructions as defined by Scripture (including those pertaining homosexuality)?
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September 18, 2015 at 4:42 am
Frank, thanks for your answer, I understand the faith and works doctrine, this is elementary.
Your answer to my question about the Sabbath reveals we are not under the law of Moses unless I misunderstood you. I am not saying that God’s law has been eradicated, its the old covenant that has been abolished. There is a subtle difference, maybe my wording of my comments was not the best. The old covenant has been fulfilled, completed and has ended in Jesus. In the new covenant now Jesus (Holy Spirit) lives in us to abide in the Vine. Naturally we will not be motivated by the Holy Spirit to steal, murder, be gay etc… but the motivation comes from the Spirit not from the Law of Moses. So in that sense, we are not under the Law and the Law is a shadow that is fading. We have the substance now and that substance is Christ. The Law is for unbelievers, not us.
Sorry if I was disrespectful before.
Naz
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September 18, 2015 at 8:18 am
Thanks Naz;
I’ll take your comments re: Scalia under advisement. 🙂
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September 18, 2015 at 8:25 am
Frank:
The Laws you refer to are Jewish Laws not God’s Law just because the Jews said it. They could have been the Laws of Zeus or the Laws of Diana under from different people in different generations. One can only cling to one’s choice, not by intellect or knowledge but by choice of belief.
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September 18, 2015 at 9:05 am
Religious zeal acting in the name of man’s invented Gods (thousands and thousands of created Gods in every generation since the year dot) has started more wars and caused more deaths than any other human activity. And it continues to this very day in many places around the world. Just a personal observation, ZEUS can not forgive your deceptions.
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September 18, 2015 at 10:51 am
Frank, to more directly answer your question :
“Are we to conclude we are not to abide by God’s Law/Torah/Instructions as defined by Scripture (including those pertaining homosexuality)? ”
YES we are NOT to abide in the above….
We are to abide in CHRIST. There is a big difference. It’s the difference between the Spirit and the letter. Even Paul makes this distinction clear which I want to echo loudly hear.
Frank, I think the problem with our difference of opinion is that you are going to the Law (Moses, Torah etc..) to find “how” to abide in Christ. Even though the Law is the word of God, we are not to look at the Law as the means by which we are supposed to abide in Christ. The approach we need to take is one of rest not the works of the Law. The works will flow from resting in Christ. Although subtle, there is a huge difference which results when one takes a Law based approach to living in Christ versus one who takes a spiritual approach to living in Christ. I am not saying we should do away the old testament, but really in the end, a mature Christian eventually will not need to keep going back to Moses and Abraham and all of the bible history to learn about God and who He is. We are to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The old testament was a shadow which only gave us glimpses of the greatness of God. Now in Jesus we have the fullness of God revealed to us.
Naz
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September 18, 2015 at 11:01 am
Naz writes,
I, uh, have a different take on the outcome of that discussion. 😉
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September 18, 2015 at 11:39 am
Scalia, funny thing is, I don’t even still believe everything I wrote in that post…..I am a much different believer now then I was then. I don’t know where you feel your spiritual growth has taken you since that time, I just hope you have kept moving forward. All the best…..
Naz
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September 18, 2015 at 11:43 am
Naz, I would like to think that I’ve grown since then, but my doctrinal beliefs remain the same.
All the best,
Scalia
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September 18, 2015 at 10:07 pm
Naz,
I appreciate your providing clarification to the nature of your understanding of abiding in Messiah. I do hold a different view based upon, for one thing, the words of Yahshua Himself. “If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.” (John 15:10) The question then becomes what are God the Father’s and God the Son’s commandments? God gave humanity [Numbers 15:15,16] His commandments as written in the Books of Moses. As I continue I will point to this distinct verse from Exodus, i.e., (Exodus 3:2) The angel of YHWH appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of the bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. When I realized for the first time that it was actually the pre-incarnate Messiah, God the Son, who spoke with Moses that day it opened up an entirely new perspective on the Old Testament. The substance of Messiah Yahshua has always been with us going all the way back to the very beginning. Consider also that we have confirmation for this from two Scriptural testimonies, that of Stephen [Acts 7:29-34] and Jude [Jude 1:5,6]. This realization enabled me to understand/esteem the essential necessity to comprehend the entire Bible both Old and New Testaments as an integrated message from Yahweh. No one can add to or take away from one or the other Testament [Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18,19]. We are called by God to be obedient to His Law [Deuteronomy 4:30-40; Matthew 23:1-12; Romans 6:1-22]. Not so that we be be saved for that is His gift which we receive not by our own works so that none should boast but by His grace through faith/trust in His Son whom He sent. So that we might be transformed into the image of His Son [2 Corinthians 3:17,18] by receiving a new heart with His everlasting truth/Law written upon it [Jeremiah 17:10, 23:20, 24:7, 31:20, 31:33, 32:39, 33:6-9, 14-16, 19-26]. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. For their is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of Yahweh shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the end of the world [Psalm 19:1-14]. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought Me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me. But to Israel He saith, All day long I have stretched forth My hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people [Hosea 5:15]. (Romans 10:10-21) Yes, even believers have and will sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Yahshua Messiah for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, … Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:21-31) It’s God’s righteousness (We have no righteousness of our own.) and grace that make all the difference. God’s Law/Instructions/Way/Truth/Word is immutable, vital, trustworthy and brings blessing to all those who obey [Deuteronomy 28:1,2; Joshua 1:8; Romans 7:12,14]. What motivates & characterizes our obedience is genuine faith, trust, humility and love for God. It’s the manifestation of our desire to be pleasing in His sight. Yahshua said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.” (John 14:6) If we are to unite with the Father then we must be adopted into His Family by joining the Body of Messiah [John 1:12,13].
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah. (Revelation 12:17)
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September 19, 2015 at 7:04 am
If you believe Christians should be made to take homosexuality off of the sin list remember; the wise man dug deep [Luke 6:48].
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September 19, 2015 at 9:16 am
DECEPTION BY THE MASTERS OF DECEPTION:
The burning bush of Moses was a trick by the elders to entice Moses to their side much like a trick that amazes so many children with a pure belief and trust bin the adults, by magic children cannot understand. One of the elders spoke at the burning bush but it was certainly not Jesus.
What we know is obvious from scripture itself, that magic tricks were called miracles and so tricking Moses with fire that spontaneously seemed to ignite, burned with brilliant flames yet extinguished almost immediately so that no damage or burning resulted to the subject “on fire”. As kids we use to do this magic using refined lighter fluid on our hands; when we ignited the highly flammable liquid, which without ignition would evaporate almost as fast as the fire that consumed it when lit, the uninitiated audience was amazed and left in awe that our hands were not consumed, scorched or burned! This was the same technique the elders used on the bush that went up in flames that attracted Moses to the bush that burned but was not consumed.
This burning bush event was well planned and staged by the elders. Moses held a high place in Pharaoh’s court, being saved as a young child floating among the reeds on the Nile in a basket and ultimately saved by Pharaoh’s daughter, the Princess, Moses was a perfect candidate for the elders to set in motion a plot that would lead to freedom from Egyptian slavery.
Here is a brief account of the story:
By the end of Exodus 1, the pharaoh of Egypt had decreed that all the Hebrew boy babies were to be drowned at birth. In the 10 verses from Exodus 2, Yocheved, Moses’ mother, hides her newborn for 3 months and then places her baby in a caulked wicker basket in the Nile River reeds.
“Baby Moses had a sister named Miriam, and she watched from a distance to see what would happen to her baby brother. While she was watching she saw somebody coming, she realized it was Pharaoh’s daughter and her servants. They were dressed like they were famous, and she had seen her before and remembered what she looked like.
Pharaoh’s daughter had come for a swim. While she was swimming she noticed a basket floating a little ways away in the tall grass. So she asked one of her servants to go see what it was.
The girl brought the basket over to her, and when Pharaoh’s daughter opened it, the light startled Moses so he woke up and started to cry. “What a sweet, beautiful little baby. It must be one of the Israelite’s,” Pharaoh’s daughter said to her servants.
Miriam had seen what had happened, and she hurried over and asked, “Would you like me to go find an Israelite woman to feed the baby for you?”
“Yes, go and find someone who can nurse the baby.” she answered. Miriam ran as fast as she could and told her mother that Pharaoh’s daughter had found him and wanted someone to come nurse him.
They went and found Moses with Pharaoh’s daughter, and she asked them, “Please help me and nurse this baby, and I will pay you for helping me.” (She didn’t realize that this was actually Moses’ mother).
Later he became the son to Pharaoh’s daughter, and that’s when she named him Moses, which means she got him out of the water.”
Later over time Moses grew to become a wise and strong man. Moses after the bush burning event soon became artful in magic being taught by the chief elders. This is where Moses learned the magic trick of turning a staff into a snake and turning it back into a staff again. The elders told Moses to impress Pharaoh by invoking the power of their God, supposedly the one true God, who would be credited with the magic trick.
Exodus 7:8-11
8-9 “Then God(speaking through the elders) spoke to Moses and Aaron. He said, “When Pharaoh speaks to you and says, ‘Prove yourselves. Perform a miracle,’ then tell Aaron, ‘Take your staff and throw it down in front of Pharaoh: It will turn into a snake.’”
10 Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did what God(speaking through the elders) commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his servants, and it turned into a snake.
11 Pharaoh called in his wise men and sorcerers. The magicians of Egypt did the same thing by their incantations: each man threw down his staff and they all turned into snakes.”
The takeaway is this: Magic Tricks are called Miracles but have nothing to do with the supernatural and have nothing to do with the God that believers in a supernatural God proclaim in their preach.
While believers would like you to believe in the Word of God with stories concocted about God and Messiah and the burning bush, the supernatural is a believer’s nonsense and means nothing more than what I have written, albeit, it is rather awesome to believe in the fantasies of believers but when we grow up we put away the things of children. The child’s movie is over and it’s time to grow up.
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September 19, 2015 at 9:46 am
Frank, I appreciate your response.
I still think there is a fundamental difference in our approach and understanding of the gospel although very subtle.
You seem to stress the “keeping of commandment” over and over. I am still not sure if you mean that through faith we are now obligated to keep all of God’s 613 laws from the old testament, or, that the Holy Spirit will motivate us to keep the entire law of Moses, all 613 commandments/regulations etc…
Please clarify the above for me. If your answer is yes, then I do not agree. I don’t know about you but I feel absolutely no guilt or remorse for having a egg and bacon sandwich this Saturday morning and cutting my lawn. Perhaps I’m not listening to the Spirit’s leading to refrain. Is that it ?
The question is, is it our keeping of God’s commandments that enable us to abide in His love, OR, is it abiding in God’s love the enable us to keep His commandments ?
Joh_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
I agree that we are to understand the old and new testaments in it’s totality but that doesn’t mean creating some confusing mixture of grace and some law to keep us well behaved.
When a person is born again, the Holy Spirit takes residence in their life. Now how that person lives whether he does good or evil will prove that the Spirit is dwelling in him. If good works, then the person is behaving in a way that is consistent with who God has birthed him to be. If the person commits sin, then that born again believer will not be happy and his disgust or disappointment in himself will itself be evidence that he is a child of God at the core even though his behavior does not reflect it at the moment.
The question is not behavior then, the question is whether that person is born again. The focus is about what God has done, not what the person is doing. God has taken care of the sin issue and we have been crucified with Christ, that is, someone else crucified us, we can’t crucify ourselves and die daily as some teach. We are, present tense, DEAD TO SIN. We don’t die a little bit a time every day as we strive to keep God’s commandments. We died and were born again.
Rom_6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom_7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom_7:8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
The above verses show that sin is incited through commandments of the law Moses (thou shalt not covet). Not that the law itself is sin, but abiding by law entices sin. It’s a paradox, the one thing the law tries to do, restrain sin, actually creates sin !
“What motivates & characterizes our obedience is genuine faith, trust, humility and love for God. It’s the manifestation of our desire to be pleasing in His sight.”
I agree with the above statement you made and can only add that God is already pleased with us even though we fall and make mistakes. We are His children and must never think that our salvation or standing with God is at any time in jeopardy because of what we do. It is from this freedom and safety that we can boldly serve God and be what He created us to be.
Naz
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September 19, 2015 at 1:19 pm
Naz,
Given the fact that you and I are not Levitical priests and there is no Temple standing in Jerusalem today I don’t see us as obligated to keep “all 613” laws. Indeed not every Instruction applies to each and every individual. Some are for men only, others for women, some for parents etc. The issue presented for resolution actually concerns the precept, Know God and make Him known. Yahshua tells us, Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and with all your strength. He teaches this as being the greatest commandment. He also tells us to love our neighbor as ourself. It is on these two commandments, He instructs, that all the Law and Prophets hang. He doesn’t discount the remaining commandments. Rather, He commands us to take up our cross daily and follow Him; deny ourselves so we may walk as He walks led by the Spirit of God. Yahshua leads by perfect example of how to follow God’s Law while living abundantly by its Instruction. He is the Good Shepherd. We should learn from Scripture, all of it, and continuously examine ourselves to determine if we are truly being faithful to our God and our Messiah. When we love God we obey Him. It’s extremely difficult to love and honor someone you haven’t come to know and trust. When you hate someone you rebel against them. When we honor/love our human parents we obey them. We have faith/trust that they want what’s in our best interest so we obey their instruction without contradiction. Obedience stands as an expression of our love for God. It demonstrates we submit to His Lordship, Divine sovereignty, authority and wisdom as Yahshua Messiah does. If not, our disobedience proves us insincere & corrupted by holding disgruntlement. We should try our best to do as He commands but sometimes we fall short whether from ignorance or arrogance. But if we’ve accepted His gift of His Son then God’s riches at Christ’s expense or grace provides for our atonement when we repent. Messiah’s shed blood provides propitiation for our sin/transgression against God’s Law. Let’s stay in His Light.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)
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September 19, 2015 at 1:38 pm
“Not Levitical Priests and no temple in Jerusalem”. How childish and pathetic can you get at religious rationale?
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September 19, 2015 at 2:17 pm
This was like the Scribes and the Pharisees. The Lord Jesus said to them: “You search the scriptures.” In the original it’s the imperative. Or rather it’s a categorical statement of fact, not just the imperative. He didn’t say “search the scriptures”, he said, “You search the scriptures” because he knew they did. This was their stock in trade; this was their text book.
“You search the scriptures; in them you think you have eternal life.”
There’s no eternal life to be found in the bible. I believe the bible from cover to cover, I believe it to be inspired, I believe it is authored by the Good Spirit. But there’s no eternal life to be found in the bible. Said the Lord Jesus:
“These scriptures are they that testify of me and you will not come to me that you might have life.” So you’ve got a bible you study and you flatter yourself on your biblical scholarship. You derive from it your theological and philosophical propositions but you examine that book without any revelation of the one who authored it and you fail to recognize the one of whom it testifies and because you will not come to me, that in me you might have that life that only I can give you, you’ve got a dead bible and a dead religion and it won’t be long before you have a dead Christ because you see if you study the bible long enough without coming to the one of whom it speaks you’ll crucify him. And then you’ll say,
“We buried him in our generation”.
Said the Lord Jesus, your word is truth. It contains those vital principles that must govern man’s relationship to God and God’s relationship to man. Sanctify them Father, through this truth.
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September 21, 2015 at 6:37 pm
THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS IS BOUNDLESS IN ITS JUSTIFIED TRUE BELIEF
4 hours ago:
Beirut (AFP) – The Islamic State jihadist group executed nine men and a boy it accused of being gay in central and northern Syria on Monday, a monitoring group said.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the jihadists shot dead seven men in Rastan, a town in Homs province of central Syria, “after accusing them of being homosexual”.
IS also executed two men and the boy in the town of Hreitan, in the northern province of Aleppo, for the same reason, said Observatory head Rami Abdel Rahman.
He said the executions were carried out in public, but that IS fighters destroyed any cameras that had been used to film the killings.
IS has used brutal violence to enforce its rule in the so-called “caliphate” it declared in territory straddling Iraq and Syria.
Along with homosexuality, witchcraft and loyalty to President Bashar al-Assad are also considered capital punishment offences in IS-controlled areas.
In previous cases, IS has beheaded alleged homosexuals or thrown them from rooftops.
According to the Observatory, IS has executed more than 3,000 people, including at least 1,800 civilians, since it announced its caliphate in June 2014.
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/executes-10-people-accused-being-gay-syria-monitor-204159542.html
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September 22, 2015 at 6:42 am
Frank, I am glad you used your own words to respond to me and not just scripture. I have highlighted some of your statements and will respond to each so maybe we can see where we differ in our understanding.
Frank: Given the fact that you and I are not Levitical priests and there is no Temple standing in Jerusalem today I don’t see us as obligated to keep “all 613” laws.
Naz: My question then is, if we were Levitical priests and there was a Temple, would we be obligated to keep the laws that pertain to Levitical priests and Temple sacrifice ? If not, why not since you claim that God’s laws are not abolished.
Frank: He doesn’t discount the remaining commandments. Rather, He commands us to take up our cross daily and follow Him
Naz: I thought His commandments were not burdensome ? Why is following God’s commands likened to “taking up a cross” ? This is contradictory to the new covenant and sounds more like the old covenant where obligation was the rule of the day and the way of life. In my opinion, this verse is speaking of us following Jesus to where the cross led him, to death. We are crucified with Christ and yet still live..the gospel is not just Christ dying for us, but is about our death in Christ as well.
Frank: We should learn from Scripture, all of it, and continuously examine ourselves to determine if we are truly being faithful to our God and our Messiah
Naz: While we should use all of scripture, I want to point out that scripture interprets scripture and that revelation is progressive from the beginning to the end of the bible. We need to keep scripture in context and know who it was written to and when. For example, David said, “create in me a clean heart O God” This is not a prayer we need to pray today. As partakers of the new covenant, God has given us a new clean heart so we don’t need to ask Him for that which He already had given us. The new covenant is far superior than the old and those like David only dreamed of a time where they could live with the benefits we have in Christ.
I’m concerned with the phrase “continuously examine ourselves”. This examination will always prove to be a failure. Any person that is truly honest will fail when they examine themselves and try to measure up to God. Now if anyone thinks for one moment that they are measuring up by their behavior, that person is certifiably self-righteous and they have fallen from grace and have put Jesus to open shame. We need to distinguish between identity and behavior. Our identity is clean and righteous through Christ, whereas our behavior is a life long journey that continually needs work.
Frank: Obedience stands as an expression of our love for God.
Naz: Yes I agree, but the love we have for God cannot come from ourselves, it must come from Christ through the Spirit. If it comes from ourselves, it will be a tainted religious hypocritical love. We love God “because” He FIRST loved us.
Frank: We should try our best to do as He commands but sometimes we fall short whether from ignorance or arrogance
Naz: Trying our best is not the gospel. Our best does not work and falls short, that’s the whole point of the gospel. Christ died so He can live in us and we could rest in Him. We should walk as we received Christ, by grace through the Spirit. We don’t get saved by grace and then live our lives by trying our best to obey the law. This is a recipe for failure and a snare set by the enemy. We need to divorce ourselves from the concept of “trying our best” and saying “we can’t” and find our strength from Christ.
Frank: But if we’ve accepted His gift of His Son then God’s riches at Christ’s expense or grace provides for our atonement when we repent.
Naz: Ours sins are not atoned for (covered), they are taken away and forgotten by God. I know that is subtle but still important to understand to realize the riches you speak of. We don’t continually receive forgiveness from God by turning away from sin every day. We receive a once for all forgiveness at the moment we believe on Christ and receive Him. God’s forgiveness is not based on our ability to stop sinning. This is not the gospel. When we believe in Christ we repent (turn away) from our previous belief system (without Christ) to a new life with Christ in us. We are not preaching John’s repentance message, that is not the gospel but was just a forerunner to the truth that actually saves.
Frank: For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.
Naz: Yes, God will judge all in the end. Fortunately for us who believe, Christ has taken our judgement and punishment and we have no need to fear or worry because perfect love casts out all fear.
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September 22, 2015 at 9:02 am
We love God “because” He FIRST loved us.
“I love my wife because she first loved me.”
ILLUSTRATION
Now look at John 12, 12th chapter of John’s gospel. And here the lord Jesus in a very beautiful way gives a very simple illustration the reason why he came into the world which wasn’t to get you out of hell and into heaven though it happens to be included in the package. The reason Jesus came to earth was to get God out of heaven into you and to me.
The Lord Jesus, presented his humanity to the Father, as God, through the holy spirit and the Father, as God, presented himself in deity to the son, as man, through the holy spirit. So the holy spirit is the third co-equal member of the triune Godhead through whom a man makes himself available to God and through whom God shares his deity with a man. Fantastic. Let me put it in a nutshell this way, “All there is of God is available to the man who is available to all there is of God.” For he that cometh to God must first believe that God IS and that being who he IS, he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. All there is of God is available to the man who is available to all there is of God. How available was the Lord Jesus, as man, to his Father, as God? Totally. How available was the Father, as God, to his son, as man? Totally. So there was total, mutual, inter-availability and if you want a definition of being filled with the holy spirit, that is it!
Mutual inter-availability. So that a man on earth, though he now doesn’t deserve it, but on the grounds of redemption having been created that way, re-invaded by deity makes himself in totality, available to the total availability of God. Has nothing to do with psychedelic experiences, going high, goggling your eyes or thumping chairs; it only has to do with your humanity, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotion and will being as available now to the Lord Jesus, as God in you, as he, as man was then available to his Father, as God in him, that’s all. That’s normality.
And because there was mutual inter-availability there was no margin of difference between what the Lord Jesus did as man and the Father did as God. No margin of difference between what the Lord Jesus said as man and the Father said as God. No margin of difference between what he was as man and the Father was as God except that God is invisible and the Lord Jesus in a physical visible humanity gave a physical, visible expression of an invisible self intimately identified with an invisible God so he could take God out into the open where he could be seen and that’s exactly why he made you and me. That’s normality.
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September 24, 2015 at 1:15 am
Naz,
par. 3 — Yes we would. Refer to Yahweh’s declaration written in Ezekiel 44:1-31. You’re in error stating that it’s my claim that God’s Law isn’t abolished. God Himself testifies to this over and over again throughout the entire Bible. As it’s written in Scripture: His Law/Truth is everlasting.
par. 5 — God’s commandments aren’t burdensome. Yahshua tells us, “Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30) With this Instruction from God Himself to take His yoke and come to learn about His meekness and humbleness in heart; how can you understand that as He’s intending to oppress you in any way? He clearly states that His “yoke is easy” and His “burden is light”. He actually offers rest unto your soul, not turmoil. God’s Torah/Instructions are forever according to His Word. He gives them to bless us when we obey and curse us when we disobey as written in the Book of Deuteronomy. Didn’t He wait for Lot and his family to flee Sodom before destroying its wickedness? The curse of sin/lawlessness remains in effect. Indeed the entire creation groans under its bondage of corruption [Romans 8] until Messiah redeems it at His Second Coming. As to taking up the cross [Luke 9:23]; the perspective to be drawn relates to Yahshua not us. We are to focus our spiritual vitality on His Life, not ours: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. (Luke 9:24) Don’t obsess over gaining that which is of the world [Luke 9:25]. For here is Messiah’s admonition to us: For whosoever shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, and when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. (Luke 9:26) This focus derives from our faith/trust in His Second Coming to execute justice and righteousness on the earth; holding each one accountable for his obedience to the Word of God and disobedience to the Word of God.
par. 7 — Kindly read this article in full giving particular attention to the portion: Y’shua and the Renewed Covenant. Once you’ve done so we can discuss its specifics:
http://www.setapartpeople.com/new-or-renewed-covenant
par. 8 — The phrase “continuously examine ourselves” should be taken in the context of 2 Corinthians 13:5 concerning “whether ye be in the faith;” in which Apostle Paul writes, “prove your own selves.” I pray, Examine me, O Yahweh, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. (Psalm 26:2)
par. 10 — Then if we love Yahshua we should keep His commandments. We are called by God not just to love Him and obey Him but to know Him also: And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the word of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (1 John 2:3-7)
pars. 12 & 14 — Keep this Scripture firmly in mind as I address your confusion: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8) Do not take me out of context. Go back to post # 62 and re-read my final seven statements [excluding Ecclesiastes 12:13-14]. Yahshua Messiah’s self-sacrificial atonement at Golgotha provides for humanity’s reconciliation with God. Your concentration’s on forgiveness. My emphasis concerns atonement/reconciliation while yours concerns repentance/forgiveness. You’re confusing atonement for sin with remission of sin. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:18) Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. (John 8:36)
http://biblicalprospector.blogspot.com.br/2010/04/remission-of-sins.html
par. 16 — You have yet to be judged by Messiah Yahshua and give account of your life as I too must do. If you’re a believer in Him your judgment will be at the Bema Seat at His Second Coming. If you don’t believe in Him it will be at the Great White Throne Judgment when He finishes His Millennial Reign on earth.
May your name be found in His Book of Life.
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September 24, 2015 at 8:08 am
Of course you will have the Old Testament Scriptures supporting Old Testament Scriptures; it’s the only Bible the ancients had. Even the New Testament writers could only quote from the Old Testament; it’s the only Bible they had too.
The only bible Jesus ever had in his hand was the Old Testament scriptures but when Jesus read and explained the scriptures, EVERYONE was on the edge of his seat wondering what A-MAZING thing he would say next because he taught them as one having authority, not like the Scribes and Pharisees or preachers on YouTube.
When the preachers got up to speak everyone curled up and went for a quiet doze until the benediction was over, waking up, preferably just after the Offering. Jesus and I and the Father are one, and that is one of the simplest things to understand, and it is easy to him who has understanding. Has nothing to do with ego, has nothing to do with blasphemy, it has only to do with your understanding that Jesus knew he was a microcosom of the whole human race by simply looking inside himself and seeing the Father operating there., from his Kingdom within you.
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September 24, 2015 at 8:12 am
Frank, based on your last response I think it’s time to part company at this time as there is such a great chasm between us that it’s futile to continue further….
Without going into all the details, your affirmative answer to whether Levitical priests should be serving at the Temple today clearly shows the source of our division, Law vs. Grace.
My responses were never intended to suggest that we should not obey the Lord. What that obedience looks like to me and you and what it means is not the same.
As for my judgment, Jesus has taken my sins away permanently, I have no doubt based on the finished work of Christ that my name is in the Book of Life. To say I have to give account of my life to God and be judged according to my works is completely contradictory to what Christ has done and would make God a hypocrite. Obviously the Bema seat judgment is not understood by many Christians.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Take care…
Naz
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September 24, 2015 at 5:16 pm
Naz,
I wish you well.
http://119ministries.com/videoteachings.aspx?viewcontentpageguid=e52494f5-ae74-4968-ac17-d3b002191b91&parentnavigationid=28
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September 27, 2015 at 7:43 am
The attitude of homosexuality as a sin is a phenomenon born out of an ancient society that would not accept common anomalies like epilepsy without blaming it on the sins of the afflicted, the sins of the parents of the afflicted or otherwise because they were possessed by demons. Such an anomaly as homosexuality while very common in ancient times merely reflected an intolerant society of religious self righteous guardians of the ritual that needed to scapegoat the weak and the vulnerable as examples of what happens when one disobeys god.
WHAT IS AN AXIOM?
A self-evident and necessary truth, or a proposition whose truth is so evident at first sight that no reasoning or demonstration can make it plainer.
THE AXIOM:
(Cultural) prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic. Tryon Edwards
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October 2, 2015 at 5:12 pm
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November 5, 2015 at 5:12 pm
Christianity is on the wrong side of history, Since they took their religion from the Jews they might also take their advice on how to treat the LBGT community.
U.S. Reform Jews adopt sweeping transgender rights policy
Reuters
4 hours ago
By Barbara Liston
ORLANDO, Fla. (Reuters) – Temples and synagogues affiliated with the nation’s largest Jewish movement should take specific steps to embrace transgender people, a U.S. conference of Reform Jews urged on Thursday in approving a groundbreaking resolution.
In a resounding voice vote, Reform Judaism embraced some of the most far-reaching policies for transgender people seen among any of the nation’s mainstream religious organizations, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) right advocates said.
The resolution calls for congregations to offer cultural training for religious school staff, sermons on transgender issues and gender-neutral restrooms where feasible.
The measure generated little discord among the 1.5 million North America Jews affiliated with the Union for Reform Judaism, which is holding a biennial conference in Orlando, Florida.
“We have gay, lesbian, the whole rainbow members are on our board of trustees,” said Ken Snitz from Temple Israel in Tulsa, Oklahoma. “We’re very open and supportive. We don’t just say it. We practice it.”
The Episcopal Church and United Church of Christ also have adopted positions in support of transgender issues. Yet the Reform Jewish movement’s policy goes further by listing specific actions to promote inclusion, said Michael Toumayan of the national Human Rights Campaign, which advocates for gay rights.
“It’s a big deal, but at the same time it’s not controversial for them at all,” he said.
It is Reform Judaism’s first anti-discrimination policy on transgender issues, said Barbara Weinstein, associate director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, a Washington-based advocacy center.
In 2003, the movement admitted its first openly transgender person to rabbinical school and in 2015 required congregations to consider all candidates for rabbinical jobs, regardless of gender identity, according to the resolution.
The measure also urges public policy changes to make it easier for transgender people to update passports, voter registrations and birth certificates, and to be identified with pronouns and have access to public restrooms according to their gender identity.
Although many of the 900 affiliated Reform congregations already are welcoming to transgender people, others will now address the issue for the first time, Weinstein said.
Some smaller religious institutions, such as the Unitarian Universalist Church and the Metropolitan Community Church, which organized as a Christian center for LGBT people, also have strong anti-discrimination policies, according to the Human Rights Campaign.
SOURCE:
http://news.yahoo.com/u-reform-jews-poised-adopt-sweeping-transgender-rights-130210656.html
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November 6, 2015 at 12:10 pm
But He said, “The things that are impossible with people are possible with God.” (Luke 18:27)
“I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.” (Job 42:2)
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. (Philippians 4:13)
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Yahshua Messiah, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Yahshua Messiah, be the glory forever. Amen. (Romans 16:25-27)
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December 20, 2015 at 7:31 pm
If there really is a culture war raging between social liberals and conservatives, polling data indicates the liberals have won one battle so thoroughly they’re making inroads into enemy territory.
A new Pew Research Center survey suggests that growing numbers of Christians have come around on homosexuality, with a full 54% of all Christians agreeing that “homosexuality should be accepted, rather than discouraged, by society.”
“While this is still considerably lower than the shares of religiously unaffiliated people (83%) and members of non-Christian faiths (76%) who say the same, the Christian figure has increased by 10 percentage points since we conducted a similar study in 2007,” Pew writes.
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/poll-shows-christians-america-really-203719289.html
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December 21, 2015 at 4:03 pm
As Robert A. J. Gagnon, Ph.D., summarizes his paper: “In short, the notion that Paul–or, for that matter, any other author of Scripture or even Jesus himself–would have been favorably disposed to same-sex intercourse in the context of a committed union shows a great misunderstanding of the texts of Scripture in their historical context.” The point being: God’s view never changes.
http://www.robgagnon.net/HowBadIsHomosexualPractice.htm
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December 21, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Robert A. J. Gagnon, Ph.D., does not know Jesus as an entity separate from the historical context of Pharisaical supernaturalism any more than anyone else and for that matter has no idea that the “God never changes scenario” means, from the Pharasaical movement to the Jesus movement by anybody’s account was a repudiation of the historical context cited. So, sorry but please don’t bring Jesus into your bias. Maybe God’s view never changes; it just requires different interpretations.
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December 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm
Interpret – yes. Rationalize – no.
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December 21, 2015 at 9:40 pm
Regurgitating the same thing for 2000 years and preaching a different outcome is rather a sign of gross failure and it befuddles the mind why you continue to advocate Utopia. Don’t you think that maybe, just maybe your message is a skewed version of Pharisaical nonsense because you missed the interpretation? Or do you think you have the right interpretation but it’s such a big ship you can’t turn it around any faster?
I respectfully submit you have the wrong interpretation, producing the same wrong results and you will never see any different results until you are supplanted entirely and common sense prevails over supernaturalism. But if you can’t let go of superstitious foolery you are destined to wallow and preach the same nonsensical interpretation going nowhere because you can’t grasp the message of Jesus outside the realm of a supernatural mindset.
It must be tough going riding the carousel of repetition you’re destined never get past. It’s like the Twilight Zone.
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December 22, 2015 at 10:15 am
Your obsession with the “Jesus” of your own predilections will result in only one outcome: [John 8:24].
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=QCgFAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA45&lpg=RA1-PA45&dq=Jesus+of+your+own+predilections&source=bl&ots=GYVV95ref9&sig=YA0-mcS7bSLPdiBtm4-t54zM5og&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2trGMhPDJAhVCW5AKHSx4ASUQ6AEIQzAE#v=onepage&q=Jesus%20of%20your%20own%20predilections&f=false
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December 29, 2015 at 4:49 am
Re: post # 78 —
“Maybe God’s view never changes; it just requires different interpretations.”
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December 29, 2015 at 10:20 am
This quote actually missed the end of the sentence which should read differently as noted below:
Re: post # 78 —
“Maybe God’s view never changes; it just requires different interpretations.”
of man’s word because all written words are from man in speculation about what God says if God ever said anything. Nobody knows anything about any such God because God is a caricature concept dreamed up in the imagination of man’s mind called “BELIEF”; also known as without-knowledge.
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