Steven Cowan and Greg Welty argue contra Jerry Walls that compatibilism is consistent with Christianity.[1] What they question is the value of libertarian free will (the freedom to do other than what one, in fact, chooses to do, including evil). Why would God create human beings with the ability to choose evil? Libertarians typically argue that such is necessary in order to have genuine freedom, including the freedom to enter into a loving relationship with God. After all, if one could only choose A (the good), and could never choose B (the evil), then their “choice” of A is meaningless. The possibility of truly and freely choosing A requires at least the possibility of choosing B. The possibility of evil, then, is necessary for a free, loving relationship with God. It is logically impossible for God to create free creatures who are unable to choose anything other than A.
Cowan and Wells ask, however, what would be wrong with God creating us in a way that made it impossible for us to desire or choose evil, and yet our choice would still be free. All that would be required is the presence of more than one good to choose from (A, C, D, E, F…). No matter what we choose, we could have chosen some other good, but never evil. This avoids the logical contradiction and preserves real freedom of choice. Cowan and Wells argue that such a world would be superior to our world since this possible world preserves libertarian free will, but lacks evil. In their assessment, there is no reason for the actual world if the value of libertarian free will (relationship with God, gives us freedom to choose the good, gives us the freedom to do otherwise) could be obtained without the possibility of evil. For the libertarian who wants to maintain that the actual world is superior to this possible world, they must maintain that the greatest value of libertarian freedom is that it gives us the opportunity to do evil. Why would God value our ability to do evil if He is good and hates evil? Why would God create a world in which libertarian freedom results in evil if He could have achieved all of the goals of libertarian freedom without evil?
How would one respond to this argument? Keep in mind that their possible world requires that for every choice a libertarian free creature makes, he must first be presented with multiple options, all of which are morally good. Is that possible? For many choices, yes, but not all. The most obvious example is actually one of the stated purposes for libertarian free will: to allow us to freely choose to enter into a loving relationship with God. When it comes to a relationship with God, how many good options do we have? One, it seems to me. It’s a dichotomous decision: either we enter into a loving relationship with God, or we don’t. Choosing not to have a relationship with God would be evil. But in the possible world, one cannot choose evil, so one could not choose not to have a relationship with God. That would mean they must choose to have a relationship with God, and they are no longer free.
Since Cowan and Welty’s possible world cannot, in fact, achieve all of the virtues of libertarian free will without evil, it is not a feasible world. To achieve a world in which creatures enjoy libertarian free will, God had to create a world in which evil was possible.
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[1]Steven B. Cowan and Greg A. Welty, “Pharaoh’s Magicians Redivivus: A Response to Jerry Walls on Christian Compatibilism”, Philosophia Christi, Vol. 17, No. 1, 2015, pp. 151-173
Thinking to Believe 
October 8, 2015 at 4:24 am
why reify the good and evil? that there are choices to make is clear. the grading of them as good or bad is a characteristic of being human.
the question is then back to what matters, which is, do we have the ability to select one set of options over others. it seems we do and it also seems we are bound in place with limiting, determining influence implying determinism in some way.
good and evil are moral grades and if the concern there is culpability, then the larger question is why god created us free to do things people grade as evil, not whether or not we do either.
to the article itself, of course god could have created us free in the same sense we are now (determinism, free, compatiblism) without “evil” being an option. all that requires is removing need and a sense of property (see hume, an enquiry concerning the principles of morals). there is after all, no sense of morality over breathing of the consumption of air, for example, while land is another matter.
but this is not the kind of world that we in fact live in.
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October 8, 2015 at 4:39 am
schillebeeckx also reminds us of the classic theology that what makes a religious person isn’t choosing “god”; just the fact that “the good” is something we’re all drawn toward morally and aesthetically; that certain people in faith name it “god”. only in that sense does it at all make sense to assert “not choosing god is evil”, because it is an axiomatic truth; god being another word for “the good” definitionally means other options are less good, and some, very bad indeed (jesus: an experiment in christology).
in any other sense, the comment makes no sense. 1) one cannot merely decide to believe whatever one wants because of sentiment and reason. 2) belief or disbelief there are gods is impressionistic; without sentiment, there is no reason to select rational arguments for or against god given logic does not entail truth aside from axioms and tautology. 3) lacking an impression there are gods has absolutely no bearing on whether or not one has, does, or will act morally.
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October 8, 2015 at 4:45 am
as a side note, i have no idea what people mean in claiming “personal relationship” with an ineffable being or reality, the mystery named “god”. relationship implies some measure of equality and, again from hume, whatever society one could say a man has with an ant or amoeba, for example, i’ll leave that for incredibly bold ants and amoebas.
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October 8, 2015 at 4:55 am
it is logically impossible to “choose” god, in other words. god, as an idea, comes to us by way of “place”, a philosophical predicate in epistemology and then heavily deterministic. one can, however, choose to participate in “the good”. but, it is impossible to choose what one believes if one has no real reason to believe it; be that through sentiment or reasoning about experience.
it seems to me all the wrong questions are being asked here.
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October 8, 2015 at 4:56 am
Jason,
I think you are right. I think about this question in terms of my own children. Would I want my children to have no choice but to do everything I would suggest, or would I prefer to have children who have made a choice that they want to follow my advice?
Again, and I know I sound like a broken record: The great problem of evil, has and understandable answer when one realizes that God’s intention is that every one of us will, eventually, freely choose to follow all of His “advice”. We will all accept Jesus, and that saves us and puts us on the path to always choosing only good.
As I see it, the Scriptural answer to the problem of evil is clearly summarized by Paul: “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” Rom. 8:18
Randy
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October 8, 2015 at 7:04 am
It seems as if the questions are wrong because you’re denying the underlying (most often only implicit) presuppositions that allow for philosophical-theological game called “the problem of evil” to be played. The “God” of this game, in addition to being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, is a being with humanly comprehensible motivations, agency, and modes of action, who is also bound by the law of non-contradiction. [Hence Hume’s rejection of the entire enterprise (along with “Natural Theology”), since it all rests on anthropomorphisms that, properly speaking, are necessarily excluded from any ‘wholly other’.] Refuse the giant, yet hidden, if-clause that defines the term “God” for this argument, and the whole history of the debate becomes a mountain of nonsense.
That said, as an approach for apologetics [to which I understand this essay to be a contribution], the positions you seem to endorse tend either to fail on a practical level [since, were they acceptable to the kategorist, the charge would never have arisen] or to drift towards apostasy relative to the tradition proferring the apology.
So play the game or don’t, but it’s bad form to try to change the rules.
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October 8, 2015 at 8:06 am
how do they fail at a practical level? logic is a formal description of how folks think. it is not mind-independent. rorty, quine and others not all logic can be reduced to modus ponens and all logic, inclusive of MP reduces to absurdities, see entailment for example and note the fact that this particular problem is why the well known epistemological joke exists; that contradiction proves everything, ie p->(q->!p), p .: ?
god is a metaphysical proposition (ayer in LTL, smith in atheism: the case against god, geisler in systematic theology vol i, mccabe in god matters). all agree including the bulk of most other theologians; mccabe making the point on page 6 that we have no concept of god, god is incomprehensible, and that “god” is exactly an anthropomorphiism and why all ontological arguments for god fail.
i’m not sure what rules of the game have been asked to be changed.
the brute fact is that we exist, and it seems for now a brute fact that our reality exists and all we know and think is contingent to this reality. from this that we experience, we infer there may or may not be gods; this and everything we think about when thinking about the gods is apprehended, not comprehended; this includes revelation (see aquinas, maimonides, averroes).
i have no presuppositions other than beliefs i hold that i feel are justified. god may be a justifiable belief, but god is no brute fact nor general fact of reality; lest he be synonymous with nature and redundant, or supernatural yet still explicable where by he would be deducible alone, the only conclusion available, which he is not.
changing the rules would look like appealing to logic yet denying the entire field of epistemology doesn’t know what it is or how to employ it; too, not applying it.
if presuppositionalism is the tree you’re barking up, there’s no coon up in it; just leaves and wind, for to go from “a brain thinks and learns from experience” to “that’s impossible, don’t you know, without god” is conclusory to an nth degree.
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October 8, 2015 at 8:09 am
i find it interesting when someone references natural theology having never read aquinas at all, given i’m articulating aquinas specifically and understand the implications, which is … apprehension, necessarily anthropomorphic, rather than comprehension.
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October 8, 2015 at 8:15 am
LNC is of little interest in epistemology and not the magical trump card of presuppositionalists. as aquinas notes, a simple distinction clears up even the most damning of contradictions. LNC just tells us we need a distinction in our thinking or we need a different perspective that doesn’t entail the one we’re wrestling over.
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October 8, 2015 at 8:47 am
They fail practically in just the manner I described. To reiterate, if you’re operating, either philosophically or theologically, at the level you’re citing, then the Problem of Evil never gets started–it is nonsense. Telling someone who is asking the question that they’re talking nonsense is not an effective apologetic tactic (cf. Voltaire) and, thus, fails to achieve the practical end towards which apologetics is aimed.
The ‘game’ to which I was referring (as, I believe, I made explicit) is not “logically” but “the problem of evil”. That game has a set of rules re: the definition of the term “God”. You don’t want to work with that definition. Fine, but then you’re playing a different game or, put another way, thinking through a framework in which the original post here is not possible.
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October 8, 2015 at 9:06 am
You don’t think Hume ever read Aquinas?
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October 8, 2015 at 9:06 am
who says i don’t want to work with that definition! i’m saying that to presuppose a problem of evil is to say you have a set of beliefs that create such a problem and the beliefs themselves creating it have no implications as to whether or not they’re justified beliefs to have at all.
to say that one either assumes or presupposes a problem of evil is to say there is NO reason for apologetics at all if folks wished to talk about it. apologetics in the modern christian mind either serves to convince the convinced, as indicative of what you’ve said, or, it is to convince the unconvinced; which is to say presuppositionalism is entirely pointless for no one should expect the unconvinced to buy into a problem that entails, as of yet, unjustified beliefs creating it.
if what presuppositionalism is good for is convincing the convinced, it and the thrust of this genre of apologetics is exactly mental masturbation, to be quite frank.
the question is, is good and evil moral than a moral, human grade on social behavior. if we say it is more than that, then this is where justification plays its role.
and voltaire’s is an opinion. i’d rather think jefferson is right in that ridicule is the only tool left in the face of the ridiculous; such as a room of thinkers, on hearing zeno tell folks that motion is impossible, standing up and walking out, which is about the only QED needed and all the more as contemptibly as one could walk out.
so hume doesn’t presuppose. you should demonstrate why he should suppose at all. this is apologetics.
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October 8, 2015 at 9:09 am
LOL. i don’t know that he did. i suppose that since you mentioned being in support of natural theory yet do not know why aquinas does not agree with you that we comprehend god, you hadn’t. 😉
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October 8, 2015 at 9:27 am
Reread what I wrote, chief. I don’t support Natural Theology and didn’t say I did.
I’m fully aware of Aquinas’ theology and embrace it. In itself, however, I find it pastorally ineffective since the vast majority of people with whom one might have these conversations –as I did say– don’t operate on that level philosophically or theologically; to say it one more time, if they did they wouldn’t be asking the question in the first place. On the occasions when I’m engaging the issue directly with someone, I’ve found immense value in following the Pedagogy of God, i.e., bringing them along slowly and starting by meeting them where they are.
Though I’m generally in agreement with your assessment of the (not pastorally informed) project of the PoE–it is “masturbatory”–which is why I call it a “game” in the first place.
In my experience, anyone who still finds the PoE effective and can follow the references you’re making is not going to be moved by human argument but only by the movement of the Spirit [or they’re just playing with themselves].
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October 8, 2015 at 9:48 am
i obviously inferred from reading two different things, so, i have no troubles thinking you’ve read aquinas and simply agree. i’m confused now maybe in you saying you embrace his theology, which is largely predicated on natural theory, and you saying too that you disagree with natural theory. we can maybe put that as an aside and just leave me curious so the point you’re making isn’t lost. the same for apologetics in general, the task of.
my question then is about god and good and evil. is there a problem with “an action graded as very socially unacceptable” or is there a problem with “a maleficent influencing presence not attributable to group attitudes”?
it seems that since i believe there is a god and do believe we can objectively name things “evil” and “good”, it likewise doesn’t occur to me that something more is required. it is, for example, easy enough to adopt jesus’ jewish message and take his inclusion of the inner-man and principle over law and dogmas, and arrive at a very similar universalist theory of atonement such as recapitulation and moral influence.
as randy suggested, “advice” entails a libertarian spirit and is devoid of judgment. the problem of evil from that line of thinking is merely a human one in which we are also free to liberate ourselves from.
if this could be considered a minimalist view of the problem of evil, why would we add more to the conversation; “presupposing” this view entails the truth, what the case is?
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October 8, 2015 at 9:50 am
simply disagree, i mean … in the first sentence.
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October 8, 2015 at 2:06 pm
The issue is not just the ability to make a contrary choice, but within that choice, the ability to choose to reject God’s love and influence, to follow, or to do our own will (contrary to God’s). So it is not within reason to have another world that the only ability within free choices is to only be able to make morally good choices, because then there is no relationship of love to be willing choose to abide. The issue is not from a set of contrary good choices, but the ability to reject and choose independence. This then is he foundation of love, to be able to not love, makes love all that it could be and is.
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October 9, 2015 at 1:16 pm
These arguments are but a play on words exercising semantics. First of all nobody can define evil as a glove that fits all humanity simply because evil/good are merely gradients of behavior common to all but is never a one size fits all. Abraham can kill his son on the Divine Command Theory and the Incas can casts their young virgin children into the cauldron for bumper crops and each in their own mind and belief system justify their stupidity without knowledge.
The other perplexing aspect of these arguments of good and evil always involve the God whom nobody has ever seen or talked to or visited or heard speak and who created man in such an such a way for such and such a purpose, which on the surface has no more clarity of knowledge as talking about the GEM Factor(Gravity, Electricity, Magnetism) thsat sparked and spawned and guides the life forces and that have no personal connection with the life forces that develop into relative sects in humanity based on environment, culture, climate, belief systems, magic, miracles, myth and magination.
Whenever one starts with a belief system based on personal preferences of imagination or traditionally accepted imaginations from ancient significant others, it is like one spinning vehicle tires in snow and on ice and going nowhere; at the end of the day you remain exactly where you started and nothing will change despite the challenges that thinkers and talkers and philosophizers believe they have to sharpen their communication skills convincing the unconvinced about that which exists or does not exist.
Free will and determinism are just pieces of imagination that the conscious mind tries to make sense of and all we really get from this exercise is humanity fighting and warring, and flying bombing missions with completely different end games and nobody is playing in the same sandbox with the same tonka toys, enjoying life; no, they are eating each other up, creating adversity among the masses who go willingly to their death defending those willing to send them to it. And we call that intelligent civilization? As though there is something glorious in death that all men love to participate in like a sports game which at the end of the fight the only people who do not know they are dead are the dead!
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October 9, 2015 at 1:22 pm
If we could have a conversation without invoking this imaginative caricature concept God we would all be better of; then at least, we could argue from our own sense of reason but arguing over a made up bunch of deities is to stand inside a bucket and try to lift yourself up by the handle!
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October 9, 2015 at 1:32 pm
To create the fiction and then talk about rejecting or accepting the fictitious love and influence the created fiction has been endowed with is so laughable; there is nothing further to say about this madness of discussing the expertise of the unknowable. A Doctor of Theology is a master expert about the unknowable and wise only in his own eyes and the group that dwells in the home made fiction of their cult.
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October 10, 2015 at 11:24 am
PLEASE UNDERSTAND a little recognized concept called Pregenesis; that is, before the Genesis of …the Consciousness of Man Awakened… came into being, as described by imaginative religious hyperbole.
What God is?:
God is a Simply Structured System designed to Shape and Satisfy the Searching Sage who Asks, Seeks and Knocks. The Denominator; AKA, That which exists beyond which a greater cannot be thought.
The Will of God IS the Will of Man because the Will of God was created to be the Will of Man; not about the ordinary will of man, the Will of God was created to be about the BEST Will of Man……. which necessitated caveats. In case I said that to fast; you see, we are past masters at complicating the issue;
in other words, the First Seven Assertions of the Will of Man broadly state that at the dawning of intellectual thought of conscious awareness, the question necessarily arose………Why? and then about Self, the answers flowed forth:
THE DAWNING:
[1] MAN created God in his own image and gave Him the Perfect Attributes of Deity,
[2] THESE are those attributes which Man aspires to but the likes of which Man has also determined to be impossible to achieve,
[3] MAN sets the highest standards for his God and then pre-ordains those standards to be unreachable by Man using the phrase; “God Willing”, thus insuring,
[4] THE justification for Man as he goes about his business of being just the opposite of the attributes he has given to his God,
[5] BEING stupid, unforgiving, greedy, a liar, a cheat, a stealer, a killer, a deceiver and a most hateful and,
[6] MURDEROUS character of which even among his own kind many cannot believe,
[7] HE IS capable of the worse acts of atrocity on his fellow man, the environment and the life forms which support him.
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October 10, 2015 at 5:53 pm
Sonofman – Almost everything you said is unresponsive to the question. You are truly in your own world. This question and topic is outside your comprehension as seen by your response.
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October 10, 2015 at 7:30 pm
dgjesdal:
OMG it is you again. Well I see why my post went over your head.
If you were reading a book describing the attributes of a flying unicorn and then began a discussion about those attributes, I might say a similar thing about your discussion post because, since there are no Flying Unicorns, talking about the attributes of a non existent entity is rather useless. n est ce pas?
When you conjure up the premise (a fiction) and then talk about the conclusion based on the made up fiction as though it actually existed, any conclusion is bound to be false. Therefore I am at a loss to offer anything more than to describe that which does not exist in the hope that you may come to your senses and try to start making sense. And so I tell you that the Will you talk about that has been attributed to the fiction is actually the Will you have imagined for yourself or imagine that your fictitious entity has that you need to emulate.
I am trying to help the religious prisoners unchain themselves through reason like Jesus did in order to free yourself from the shackles of the tyranny of religious rhetoric which all you do is spin your tires on ice and snow and think you are getting somewhere for all your philosophizing about the fiction.
Simply put then: Why would God create a world in which libertarian freedom results in evil if He could have achieved all of the goals of libertarian freedom without evil?
God is the fiction, the Flying Unicorn parallel, so talking about the fiction trying to conclude through reason is like the man standing in the bucket trying to lift himself up by the bucket handle. You can never advance under any circumstances for the Corporate Religious Fiction which the proselytes perpetuate the hoax that there is something of value by debating the characters of fiction. This is like asking what Cronus could have done to avoid being overthrown by his son Zeus? Would not one have to first accept the premise that Cronus and Zeus, Poseidon and Hades actually existed? If not then that need a disclaimer. AND SO I give you the disclaimer hoping to save you from the tyranny suffered by the people exposed to the ritualism of religion that avails nothing.
When Jesus began his mission he read from the Book of Isaiah to the congregation in the Synagogue…HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED….who do you think Jesus was talking about? He was talking about the very people sitting in the church and the masses following the falsehood of religious ritualism of the clerics. Religious people are the prisoners, the poor are the religious, the downtrodden and the blind are those who follow in the paths of religious hoaxes. If Jesus wanted to preach to prisoners in jail he would not have gone to the church to do it. And the church goers actually got it because by the end of his talk they were enraged with wrath: …..Luke chapter 4 .So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff.
It is so obvious: Jesus was talking about the people who were shackled by the tyranny of Religion like most of the posters here and those who fill the pews on Sunday or twice on Wednesday and who do not take kindly to an outsider telling them they are preaching and arguing and philosophizing from a base that could not be more wrong.
You claim to follow Christ but you dont; you think you are right but you are not. Why? You just dont know HIM of whom the book testifies. You have not taken the time to get acquainted, rather relying on the past masters of deception to teach and preach and beseech you to follow the religious way. The way of the Scribes and the Pharisees.
And Jesus has been telling you for two thousand years to get back to where you belong. Yet you are still not listening from your comfort zone of Supernatural Flying Unicorns. You would still want to take him to the brow of the hill to throw him down head first, thinking you are doing wonderful things for your Fiction and its followers who will pat you on the back and give you accolades and applause while you stand smiling in the ditch of the blind.
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October 12, 2015 at 7:16 pm
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.” (John 10:10)
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October 12, 2015 at 9:41 pm
I had extra time on hand so here is a precis of the Lennox Lecture: The Hard Question: God and the problem of Evil.
Lennox lecture starts off on the wrong foot at the outset by saying that the bible is aware of the problem at a very deep level and begins quoting the story of Lazarus(13:09) saying that Lazarus suddenly became terminally ill which was a misunderstanding of scripture and misinterpretation of the story altogether that demonstrates the dogmatic but wrong interpretation.
Jesus knew about Lazarus sickness and so he stayed two days after hearing of the sickness because Jesus knew about Lazarus sickness and that the sickness was not terminally ill; in fact, Jesus himself even said so to his disciples at John 11: 4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.”
The only answer John Lennox gives about the hard question about God and the problem of evil is that moral evil comes because man because man is flawed, so man needs to repent to God because of the cross. And the only solution to the problem natural evil of earthquakes and natural disasters is not to build houses on the fault lines (if you know where the fault lines are) the Ring of Fire for example, because plate tectonics is necessary and actually sustains life by its activity without which, all life would perish.
And then he gets back on the moral evil and free will dilemma as It all comes down to: If you believe in the cross and the resurrection then there is a resolution of justice at the great judgment.
He ends by saying: If we can imagine that we could see what God has done with the children who have been battered and have died since this lecture began we would have no more questions (about the problem of evil and the resolution of justice).
He does not debit or credit God with tectonics but implies tectonics simply as natural forces. But this reasoning could be said as much with respect to life, good and evil.
His lecture is as much double speak as all lectures by people operating with the imagination of a Christian mindset. Christ = God to show that Sin=Death & the Cross and the Resurrection means coming to Life again if you repent.
Nothing to learn in this video. Just another sermon by a Christian who does now know, but believes, there is no moral base except from God and if one rejects God one rejects mankind as well.
This lecture says nothing more than what Jason says in his idea of God the moral lawgiver. And well, regarding natural disasters do not build on a tectonic plate fault line.
Shows that Christians cannot adequately address the Problem of Evil and their God choice.
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October 14, 2015 at 8:20 am
Re: post # 25 —
This precis proves deficient & unsound. It misses entirely Lennox’s critical analysis of Yahshua’s trial before Pilate. It fails to integrate the sum of the parts. Pilate might have asked, “What is Life?” For as Messiah tells us His purpose in coming is so that we “may have life, and have it abundantly [John 10:10].” The fundamental question remains for all of us, “Whom shall you trust?”
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October 14, 2015 at 8:49 am
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October 14, 2015 at 1:00 pm
Your interpretation and most Christian interpretations of scripture are deficient and unsound and completely averse to the teaching of Jesus; your idea could not be further from the truth and why Pilate said what is truth; truth like morals is what you believe. Just because you claim to follow, proclaim, cling to and shout Lord Lord did we not preach about you….and Jesus said begone I do not know you and rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: 8 ‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. 9’BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'”
You; he is talking about you Frank and others who have no idea why. You are the downtrodden teaching for doctrine the precepts of men who were and are just as wrong as you; you all say the same things, the same wrong things and niggle over words and try to sound academic with the Yuashua thing, you make Jesus sound like a sneeze.
Lennox says Lazarus was raised from the dead; he was not! Jesus weeped because average people were so stupid in those days they thought he was dead because of a medical condition he had and it was the reason Jesus said his sickness was not unto death. But the people entombed him, alive, without understanding that he was still alive. That is why Jesus cried for Lazarus being buried alive. Lazarus was lucky they entombed him and did not cover him six feet below ground; that would have killed him for sure.
If Lennox and you do not know this simple scripture why would anybody listen to anything else more complicated either you or he wants to say about scripture. You just do not get it. And you blame me just as your ancestors blamed Jesus when he told them things because of the errant misunderstanding ways of religious zealots.
The audacity of being religious.
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October 15, 2015 at 10:17 am
Re: post # 28 —
Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing. But Yahshua, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man. (John 2:23-25)
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October 15, 2015 at 12:47 pm
Exactly my Point; I know all men….Jesus and I are one: microcosoms of the whole human race.
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October 15, 2015 at 12:56 pm
Frank:
I can tell you without emphasizing too little, I am not interested in watching hour long and two hour long videos you post. If you cannot post anything that sums commentary up in two minutes or less forget it. I am not a new proselyte subject to indoctrinating stupidity. Please understand what I am saying here without neglecting the importance of what I post.
Your posts cannot override what I post; that is like someone interrupting someone talking in order to counter the point one is making. It is rude beyond acceptance.
If you want to counter punch then do so IN YOUR OWN WORDS; I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR OBJECTIONS AND COUNTER POINTS USING SOMEBODY ELSE.S REHEARSED VIDEO FORMATS. I want to hear from your heart if you have one to bear.
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October 16, 2015 at 6:24 am
“Lennox says Lazarus was raised from the dead; he was not! Jesus weeped because average people were so stupid in those days they thought he was dead because of a medical condition he had and it was the reason Jesus said his sickness was not unto death. But the people entombed him, alive, without understanding that he was still alive. That is why Jesus cried for Lazarus being buried alive. Lazarus was lucky they entombed him and did not cover him six feet below ground; that would have killed him for sure. ”
Leo, come on…..how in the world do you come up with Lazarus being buried alive ??? Are you insane ??
Joh 11:11 After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.”
Joh 11:12 The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”
Joh 11:13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died,
Leo, read verse 14 and what Jesus said “LAZARUS HAS DIED”
You really botched this one up Leo……..
Naz
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October 16, 2015 at 11:41 am
NAZ:
Read John 11:4 When Jesus got the message, he said, “This sickness is not fatal. It will become an occasion to show God’s glory by glorifying God’s Son.”
Now you see Naz, you botched this one up because you fail to see beyond the literal translation which too many times put Christians into a mind pause and they cannot see the trees for the forest.
Lazarus had a medical condition that people still suffer from today; it is rare but people even in these modern times have taken people to the morgue and pronounced them dead as a result of this condition. And Jesus, knowing Lazarus had this medical condition, also knew the danger of what would happen to Lazarus if he tarried too long before going to save Lazarus; nevertheless, after saying that this sickness was not unto death he tarried where he was another two days and further said when he was ready to return to Bethany…..John11:11 He said these things, and then announced, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep. I’m going to wake him up.”
Then Jesus went to Bethany: and then you can see here in John 11:33-34 When Jesus saw her sobbing and the Jews with her sobbing, a deep anger welled up within him. He said, “Where did you put him?”
34-35 “Master, come and see,” they said. Now Jesus wept.
37 Others among them said, “Well, if he loved him so much, why didn’t he do something to keep him from dying? After all, he opened the eyes of a blind man.”
38-39 Then Jesus, the anger again welling up within him, arrived at the tomb. It was a simple cave in the hillside with a slab of stone laid against it. Jesus said, “Remove the stone.”
The sister of the dead man, Martha, said, “Master, by this time there’s a stench. He’s been dead four days!”
40 Jesus looked her in the eye. “Didn’t I tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?”
41-42 Then, to the others, “Go ahead, take away the stone.”
They removed the stone. Jesus raised his eyes to heaven and prayed, “Father, I’m grateful that you have listened to me. I know you always do listen, but on account of this crowd standing here I’ve spoken so that they might believe that you sent me.”
43-44 Then he shouted, “Lazarus, come out!” And he came out, a cadaver, wrapped from head to toe, and with a kerchief over his face.
Jesus told them, “Unwrap him and let him loose.”
Now Naz, Jesus knew that they would entomb Lazarus after their ritual tradition of burial (entombment) so he took the opportunity to tell the disciples what everybody else would have thought to do when a man is dead you will notice in the verse when Jesus was explicit about Lazarus being dead he was talking more about the entombment, after the fact of the medical condition, what would inevitably happen. That is why Jesus became deeply angry when he discovered that he was exactly correct in saying that he was dead (caveat…the people believed he was dead and acted accordingly)
John 11: 14-15 Then Jesus became explicit: “Lazarus died. AND THEN HE CONTINUES IN THIS MANNER…………And I am glad for your sakes that I wasn’t there. You’re about to be given new grounds for believing. Now let’s go to him.”
The medical condition Lazarus suffered from is called: Narcolepsy, Cataplexy.
Here is the documentary you might gain some insight about what happened two thousand years ago and be prepared to compare this reason with your supernatural version.
Published on Nov 13, 2014
This documentary follows those who suffer from the rare disease named Narcolepsy, Cataplexy. Cataplexy is a sudden and transient episode of loss of muscle tone, often triggered by emotions. It is a rare disease, but affects roughly 70% of people who have narcolepsy. Cataplexy can also be present as a side effect of SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome.
Cataplexy manifests itself as muscular weakness which may range from a barely perceptible slackening of the facial muscles to the dropping of the jaw or head, weakness at the knees, or a total collapse. Usually the speech is slurred, vision is impaired (double vision, inability to focus), but hearing and awareness remain normal.
These attacks are triggered by strong emotions such as exhilaration, anger, fear, surprise, orgasm, awe, embarrassment, and laughter. A person’s efforts to stave off cataplectic attacks by avoiding these emotions may greatly diminish their quality of life, and they may become severely restricted emotionally if diagnosis and treatment is not begun as soon as possible.
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October 16, 2015 at 12:49 pm
According to Jewish law, burial of the deceased had to occur within 24 hours of the individual�s death (Deuteronomy 21:23), because of climate factors, in order to maintain ritual purity.
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October 17, 2015 at 8:36 pm
Leo,
You didn’t identify what version of the Bible you’re using.
But when Jesus heard this, He said, “This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it.” So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let us go to him.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” So Jesus, again being deeply moved within, came to the tomb. Now it was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. Jesus said, “Remove the stone.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there will be a stench, for he has been dead four days.” Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.” Therefore many of the Jews who came to Mary, and saw what He had done, believed in Him. (John 11:4, 14-15, 23-27, 38-45 NASB) Messiah spoke the truth in saying, “This sickness is not to end in death, ….” (John 11:4) for indeed He resurrected Lazarus from the dead. Simply believe.
As you admittedly are encumbered with a puny attention span and cannot last 43 minutes; go back to 20:00 minutes into the video from post # 29 then watch & listen for 5 minutes so you’ll learn what your attitude & actions make blatant; i.e., UNBELIEF produces IGNORANCE in which you remain LOCKED-IN to your own ruin.
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)
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October 18, 2015 at 10:54 am
My dear, lost Frank:
You call supernatural nonsense real because you simply believe. That is arrogant ignorance. That is why you think Jesus pulled loaves of bread and fish out of thin air; you simply believe they materialized; you simply believe Jesus poof poofed water into wine by bypassing the fermentation process that actually turns water into wine. You simply believe that dead people arose from the tombs after the earthquake when Jesus was on the cross and returned to their loved ones. Matt 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many…AND
2 Kings 13: 20-21 Then Elisha died and they buried him. Some time later, raiding bands of Moabites, as they often did, invaded the country. One day, some men were burying a man and spotted the raiders. They threw the man into Elisha’s tomb and got away. When the body touched Elisha’s bones, the man came alive, stood up, and walked out on his own two feet.
It is nonsensical beliefs that have you in the grips of ancient Scribe and Pharisaical supernatural rhetorical nonsense of Church Dogma called miracles. And then you use the audacity of religion that says belief supersedes knowledge. It is people like you who Jesus came to save from the tyranny of religion and you are the blind who cannot see through the dazzle of superstition that Jesus said makes you unable to see, though you have sight you remain blind lest you be converted and come to Jesus with a sound mind. Your mind is unsound.
Your bar of belief is set so low, the only sense you have is nonsense made twice as fit for proselyte cloaking than the ministry that persuades you to stay in the bizarre world where (BELIEF produces IGNORANCE in which you remain LOCKED-IN) but knowledge vaporizes both belief and ignorance by belief.
This is why Jesus came, in a nutshell: not to get you out of hell and into heaven but to get God out of the supernatural arena into you and into me. His life was a witness to that end, not his blood and not his death, even though it cost him dearly for us to know how we should live. And everything he ever did, said or was, was motivated by the Father living in the son. He let him. And you and I are too pigheaded to do so. We still perpetuate the satanic fraud; we still perpetuate the Adam creed of human self sufficiency; we still belong to the do it yourself club; we’ve never repented. Oh we’ve repented, we’re sorry for what we’ve done, anybody can be sorry for what you’ve done, especially if you’ve been found out. That isn’t repentance. Repentance recognizes that God so engineered me that apart from the presence of God, I am nothing, have nothing and can do nothing; that’s why we’re told Philippians chapter 2, verses 5 onwards, “When the Lord Jesus came into this world, he though God and not considering it robbery to claim total equality with God in that form made himself nothing; he emptied himself and was born a human being. He made himself, Old English Bible. “All that a man is without God, nothing”. So that his Father, as God in the man, can be everything. That’s why the 5th verse of the second chapter of the epistle to the Philippians says, “let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus”, that word mind seems attitude. It means disposition. Let this disposition be in you that was in Christ. He playing the role of man let the Father be everything; you playing the role of men let Christ be everything. As he derived everything he ever did, said or was from the Father in the son so now you derive everything you say and do and are from the son living in you. It’s called sanctification. Into the open. He took God out of the supernatural world to reinvade the redeemed in all the fullness of a humanity that has God living and operating within you.
Sometimes it is difficult to understand this and sometimes I fail to act accordingly but I know where God resides and I try to honor that residence; nevertheless, that residence is not in the tombs of dead mens bones in the world of supernaturalism that would have God turning the laws of the universe upside down at the whim and wish of the religious in order to capture believers with the snare of misunderstanding of where the real God lives, as Goodness lives, in a man, as seen by a mans behavior. A behavior that is not throwing rocks, wielding knives, shooting bullets and dying for a cause unknown because of Absolute Certainty of Ego that religion pumps a man up with to act like the maniac he does.
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October 19, 2015 at 7:40 am
“……you will notice in the verse when Jesus was explicit about Lazarus being dead he was talking more about the entombment, after the fact of the medical condition, what would inevitably happen…”
Sorry Leo, that explanation doesn’t fly with me. I can’t accept that Jesus was talking about entombment and not actual death. This is a stretch and you are not being textually honest (as usual).
This is black and white, Lazarus dies and Jesus brought him back to life which gives glory to God.
Save your scriptural gymnastics for the gullible, nobody’s buying it.
Naz
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October 19, 2015 at 8:32 pm
Leo,
Apostle Paul’s light years ahead of you. And so he wrote:
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Messiah died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God within me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. Now if Messiah is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Messiah has been raised; and if Messiah has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, your faith also is in vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Messiah, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Messiah has been raised; and if Messiah has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Messiah have perished. If we have hoped in Messiah in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. But now Messiah has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Messiah all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Messiah the first fruits, after that those who are Messiah’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. FOR HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? Why are we also in danger every hour? I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Messiah Yahshua our Lord, I die daily. If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE. Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.” Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame. But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or something else. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we all will be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Yahshua Messiah. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15:1-58)
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October 20, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Naz:
No explanation will fly with the illogical, unreasonableness of nonsensical impossible miraculous superstition because you are a programmed proselyte of repetitive reptilian ritualism that accepts a sham so often it becomes as a truth in your lower brain that keeps you in thrall to the tyranny of religious fear, foolishness and unfounded ludicrity. This to me is the true horror of religion: it allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own. Though Jesus called you guys out of that mindset so long ago, yet you persist in the perpetuation of the pharisaical paranormal that the resurrection of the dead was a fact of reality. How far advanced did you pharisees come in two thousand years; you did not advance; you are still where you were and cannot get out of the comfort of the ludicrous. The best you have been able to produce by perpetrating religious swindles that put the finer tenets of their theology to shame are figures such Jim Jones, Benny Hinn, Peter Popoff, Paul Crouch, Kenneth Copeland and of course the bible itself from such authors as the above from word of mouth stories:
Elijah resurrected the son of Zarephath’s widow;
Elisha resurrected the son of the great Shunammite woman;
A dead man comes back to life when he touches Elisha’s bones;
Jesus resurrects the widow’s son at Nain;
Jesus raises Jairus’ daughter from the dead;
Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead;
Many saints resurrected at Jesus’ crucifixion;
Christ’s resurrection;
Peter raises a female disciple named Tabitha from the dead;
Paul raises Eutychus from the dead;
None of these miracles ever happened and I hasten to add never happen in modern times because too many people have grown wise to whale tale mythology from thousands of years ago. Well except for a few and you all know who you are but I actually do not believe that you actually believe what you say about this any more than I believed adults when they talk about Santa and the tooth fairies to kids. Even as a kid I knew they were telling fibs and trusted very, very few adults growing up. I read spirits like you read a book.
I mean, Naz, talk about gullibility all you want but someone who believes that dead people were brought back from the dead after they die, even in todays modern world let alone 2000 years ago when epilepsy was caused by demons that needed to be cast out by prayer shows the position taken by you instead of a logical explanation of a medial condition that causes the appearance of death, is the reason the religious world that believes in miracles are referred to as kooks.
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October 20, 2015 at 8:16 pm
Frank your appeal for Paul is useless. Paul was merely the Pharisee from the sect he was born into; he never met Jesus. He never knew Jesus and only attempted to glean from what others said about him and they themselves were baffled about what Jesus taught, what he meant; they could not understand his parables. Jesus disciples never understood what Jesus was all about and neither do you.
Describing the difference between the physical and the spiritual Jesus said: This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time MANY OF HIS DISCIPLES went back, and walked no more with him.
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October 20, 2015 at 9:31 pm
Frank, Frank, Frank:
READ THIS LESSON TAKEN FROM THE BIBLE THAT ONLY AN ATHEIST CAN PERCEPTIVELY DISCERN AND WEEP FOR YOUR CHILDREN.
Mary Sunshine has the imagination to conjure up the fantasy of life after death; atheists would like to open your mind to modern reality and not stoneage fantasy; if you knew how to read the bible without the supernaturalism of mythology from before man invented the wheel, before he knew that the rain cycle was responsible for droughts and floods around the world they would not have sacrificed their innocent kids to appease the Rain God and the Bumper Crop God and the Gods of Famine. Even the Bible tells you that the concept of Heaven is where? as Jesus said “the Kingdom is within you” and the other complimentary verse is in the famous “Lord’s Prayer” ……”Thy Kingdom come; thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven…….” If you can imagine what heaven is like you have a duty to yourself and to humanity to bring it to earth, out in the open where it can be seen by others for the benefit of mankind much like the lowly little bandaid that was invented as a health aid for one person that became a health helper for the whole world.
And isn’t it just the oddest thing: I went shopping at Costco this weekend and guess who I saw there: Christians, Jews, Muslims and God knows, (if there was one) religious fanatics from all other denominations and stripes, all buying food at Costco. Now why, you might ask yourself, would all religiously indoctrinated shop at Costco? SIMPLE: Because, the reality is, they all share a common humanity, something they can’t seem to understand before they go to the store and after they leave the store. When they leave the store, they leave their humanity once again and re-enter the world of the religiously insane and go back to their content that they know better than all humanity that went before and will come after that the world of Religion as a mental illness handed down from generation to generation. The sickness of EGO spoiled the world and caused all death to invade planet earth with the shocking statistics of millions and billions slaughtered in the name of the Rain God and sacrificed to other Gods, some 20 to 40 thousand other man-created Gods of Mythology.
Read the words Jesus spoke that describes the nonsense of religion in John 7:1 to 13, when he very bluntly tells everyone, who will listen and perceive… 7 “the (religious) world cannot hate you but me it hates because I testify of it that its works are evil”.
You have no discernment even from your own so called Holy Books
because Holy Books don’t only speak about actuality; in fact, they speak in Caricature Concepts of the Gods, metaphorically, to represent the concepts of good and evil in all humanity, that humanity must overcome with the better concepts of caring for others, love, charity, mercy, kindness and compassion for because we all bleed and breath and feed and need the same as all humans ever born, except for those minds made impotent that way after being delivered out of the womb into the hands of the worlds’ religions.
Today all religions still preach the supernatural, the religious superstition of myth, magic and miracles with the same fervent nonsense sincerity they preached when Jesus railed against the clergy for deceiving the masses with ritualisms of sabbath observance, resting on the seventh day as God did after the creation, tithing, religious holidays, prayers, chants, bowing, genuflecting, finger beading, moaning and groaning in trances and seances like medieval madmen from Dracula’s era, practicing exorcisms………… etc., etc.
And of course anyone who challenged the status quo was ostracized, put on trial, made an example of and worse, excommunicated, sentenced on pain of death if they did not recant their blasphemy and heresy; some of the more well known blasphemers: Jesus, Luther, Galileo, Henry the VIII and less well known, myself and a few other commentators here in union with one of the fastest growing forces of common sense in the world today, ATHEISM, to the chagrin of the religious world who will complain about common sense atheism every inch of the way as the change to the “New Heaven” and New Earth” takes place before their very eyes that religious forces …….just…….. can………not………. see:
Even Aseop spoke common sense in Fables and Jesus; well, listen to what this common sense man, who did not accept the superstition and supernaturalism of religion had to say:
Jesus speaking: Mat 13:13: Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mark 4:11-12: He told them, “You’ve been given insight into God’s kingdom—you know how it works. But to those who can’t see it yet, everything comes in stories, creating readiness, nudging them toward receptive insight. These are people—
Whose eyes are open but don’t see a thing, Whose ears are open but don’t understand a word, Who avoid making an about-face and get forgiven.” Because they have been wrong their entire lives, their entire, wasted lives in thrall of fanaticism. And refuse to change.
They continue on their repetitious journey about superstition and supernatural just as the Scribes and Pharisees. Every fanatical street corner preacher says the exact same thing as the preacher in the Mega church, the blind following the blind without exception because they all lack perception.
Only knowledge can set you free; Belief never can and never will for never and never, Amen.
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October 21, 2015 at 10:13 pm
Whoever believes that Yahshua is the Messiah is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not grievous. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Yahshua is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Yahshua Messiah; not by water only, but by water and blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence which we have toward Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death. We know that no one who is begotten of God sins; but He who was begotten of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Yahshua Messiah. This is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:1-20)
“Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:19-21)
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October 25, 2015 at 5:13 pm
Franbk:
Law of Logical Argument – Anything is possible IF you don’t know what you are talking about.
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