First it was the approval of homosexuality. Now it is the approval of transgenderism. The Boy Scouts have jumped ship, and now it’s time for Christians to jump ship as well. An organization that was based on teaching boys to be “morally straight” has lost its way, capitulating to political correctness. Sad.
February 3, 2017
Boy Scouts Allows Transgender “Boys”
Posted by Jason Dulle under Apologetics, Transgender[18] Comments
Thinking to Believe 
February 3, 2017 at 6:37 pm
There’s a difference between political correctness and humanity evolving. Humanity evolves when it realizes that those who cry the loudest are not always the ones who are hurt the most.
Do you understand how humanity evolves? Probably not because it was political correctness by other names only a short 56 years ago when disabled people could not have access to public government building.
1961 – U.S. President John F. Kennedy appointed a President’s Panel on Mental Retardation.
1961 – The American National Standard Institute, Inc. (ANSI) published American Standard Specifications for Making Buildings Accessible to, and Usable by, the Physically Handicapped (the A117.1 Barrier Free Standard). This landmark document, produced by the University of Illinois, became the basis for subsequent architectural access codes.
1962 – The (American) President’s Committee on Employment of the Physically Handicapped was renamed the President’s Committee on Employment of the Handicapped, reflecting increased interest in employment issues affecting people with cognitive disabilities and mental illness.
1962 – Edward Roberts successfully sued to gain admission to the University of California, Berkeley, making him the first student with severe disabilities to attend that school.
It is sad when Christians who are commanded “to love their neighbor” cry the loudest when another part of humanity prays against their plight of exclusion they too face, and are hurt the most by it.
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February 4, 2017 at 12:55 am
“Loving your neighbour” doesn’t mean approve everything they do. Moreover the sheer lunacy of parents abandoning their duty to shape their children’s lives in favour of pandering to the confused thoughts of children in such an important matter beggars belief. Will the spca start accepting children that identify as dogs? Rather than have a rational debate on the confusion that reigns in the developing minds of children, and providing some stability for them, we abandon reason and pander to the loudest shouting minority.
And woe betide you if you happen to express a contrary view – no end of “-ist”, bigot and the like labels will be thrown at you. No real arguments – just name calling.
This is not “loving your neighbour” – it’s loving yourself and your laziness too much too engage with the real issue.
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February 4, 2017 at 6:04 am
clapham:
Show me one human who has claimed s/he is a dog and I’ll show you a person who has a ridiculous comparison to uphold banning a part of humanity because they belief everybody should be exactly like their dog-ma position.
Why is your faith worthy of so much respect? Would someone show me the calculations because I just don’t get it. People keep saying to me. You know you should show a bit more respect; you don’t have to call people mentally ill just because they disagree with you.
Well it’s not that they disagree with me that I call them mentally ill; it’s about what they believe about reality and more importantly what they want to do with those beliefs. I mean if that’s all it was; just a belief, well then I’d have no problem giving religion all the respect it wants.
But religion is more than just a belief, religion wants to impose a universal morality which is why it has always attracted the kind of person who thinks other people’s private lives are their business. And giving respect to this mentality is exactly what’s got us into the mess that we’re in creating not harmony with diversity but wholesale division and Jesus is not happy with your mental instability. When Jesus refused to stone the woman because of of the adultery do you really think his statement was condoning adultery. To think that what he was doing is to demonstrating the pettiness of your comparison with a human believing s/he is an animal…people behave like animals and blame other humans for their own lack of understanding…
But consider that if Jesus came back and he saw what people like you had made of his teachings, he’d quickly realize that nobody had listened to a word he said, that he was wasting his breath and that he’d wasted his life.
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February 4, 2017 at 6:47 am
Hi there,
1. I never brought faith into this or even alluded to it in my comment. My comment actually has nothing to do with faith – its about reality, which you appear keen on.
2. Universal morality – you seem to suggest its only religious people who think morality is objective (i.e. Not simply a matter of each oersons opinion) and therefore universal. You are unfortunately very mistaken. Watch famous atheist sam harris’s ted talk on science and morality or read renowned atheist legal scholr ronald dworkins “justice for hedgehogs”. You either have universal morality or no morality (just opinion)
3. My point is very much on reality not belief. To suggest that a young child has any ability to properly appreciate the issues involved in transgender is frankly ridiculous. And the argument that they self identify as such is the point im making about the dog. Kids self identify as a range of things. The role of parents is to help them separate these things from reality. If an adult is convinced they belong to the opposite gender that is one thing – encouraging children to swim upstream against everything that objective reality points to about their gender is grossly irresponsible and confusing to them at a time they should be guarded not left floundering. If they are convinced as an adult that they want to cross over – thats their call. But to cast them on a trajectory they choose when they cant even properly decide what they want for dinner is mind numbingly stupid. If you want to talk about belief, believing a young child can make this sort of life altering decision with any level of capacity is surely as ill founded a BELIEF as anything ive come across.
4. I can only guess what your jesus point is – but needless to say he told her after accepting her to sin no more. Confused children im sure are welcome – lets not confuse them more
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February 4, 2017 at 7:44 pm
clapham:
1. Assuming that you were of a particular religious persuasion was perhaps a jump made too quickly on my part and I accept your criticism as valid with respect to that, thank you.
2. There is a universal morality within humanity; however, traditional twists of subjectivism cannot be excluded within the universal moral paradigm.
3. Child rearing of course influences the young child as their minds, like putty, can be molded to a large extent into the image of parent, teacher and priestly values conform that follow cultural, traditional, and religious values. For example certain ethnic teachings against other ethnic groups carry the weight of generations of conflict into posterity and children are taught that ludicrous discriminatory actions are right, proper and just; indeed, moral. People of Jewish ethnicity have experienced this for centuries; the Caste system in India is a cultural tradition, immoral from one perspective but quite moral from the higher uppers. There are biases of wealthy families against the less fortunate, or poor (working class) people that alienate the housekeepers and gardeners within the same ethnic group. These are huge gulfs of division.
It was not that long ago that religious values dominated mindsets that viewed people with disabilities of all sorts as the result of their “sins” or because of the “sins” of their fathers in particular or ancestors generally.
There is also a universal value that trumps universal morality and that is self preservation for oneself or for one’s family or for someone defenseless, the “underdog” metaphor.
4. I think parents who recognize a different behavior pattern in their children are not encouraging children to swim against the current necessarily because of childhood fantasies; children at a very young age know the kinds of toys they like to play with. Male children preferring dolls and girlie things and girls playing with boyish things like the dump truck in the sand box. This is where parental discernment must take a role in developmental childhood, not by trying to push the male/female gender based only on the genital factor because brain gender identity is often incompatible with genital gender identity.
Naturally every parent immediately “knows”, at birth, that “it’s a boy!” or it’s a girl!” But there are way too many instances of mixed-up gender issues regarding brain/genital gender identity that only since the mid to late 80’s began to be addressed as the LBGT community. From where I sit this is a gestational anomaly and not a lifestyle choice between one or the other. Who in the world would choose to be outside the norm with the potentiality to commit suicide because “nobody understands” them or from being constantly bullied?
When my sister adopted a young boy abandoned from birth she thought she was getting a boy baby but when I visited the family when her son was 4 or 5 years old I knew intuitively that the child had a special comfort zone with males and I told my sister at that time. I moved out of country for a number of years and discovered that her son was having boyfriends instead of girlfriends and that never changed from that early age to this very day and Pride Parades are every bit as normal, if not mainstream, to be recognized as a unique segment of humanity from birth and instead of railing on them day in and day out as the religious community does about their lifestyle.
5. We need to love humanity we don’t need to condone their behavior or assume the behavior to practice this; it’s the one simple thing that unites humans because no group within humanity has a monopoly on love to the exclusion of the LGBT community. Whether or not you live in a Pauper’s Pad, or a Pope’s Palace the characters we and the LGBT community encounter range from tyrants, murderers, bullies, thieves, jealous schemers, liars and assassins to noble kings, tender lovers, doting parents, roistering drunks, swaggering soldiers, philosophers, gravediggers and country bumpkins.
Since each of us is a human being, each possesses within himself the whole potential range of emotions, urges, fears, anxieties, appetites, physical and emotional needs, instinctual drives and reactions common to all. This is not just idle philosophizing, it’s a fact of key importance to your own personal life and to your understanding and that you see people as an integral part of humanity. Humanity Uniting Humans (HUH)
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February 4, 2017 at 9:56 pm
Leo, thanks for taking the time to engage on this.
There is a veryuncomfortable point beneaththe whole debte that links to the question of universal morality. The point is that not everything that is a “natural desire” of a person is a good desire. It needs to be measured against the standard of this universal morality. Lets just use sam harris point of good for human flourishing as the benchmark.
That applies equally to hetero, homo, and all other -sexuals. A person may very well grow up with a hetero attraction to his mother and she reciprocates. Is that ok? It needs to be measured against the standard.
Simply saying that that is the way the person is doesnt actually address the issue.
None of that is to say that people dont have a place in society. Its to say that if on proper examination the behaviour in question is not conducive to their own and/or societys functitoning (and i personally think there is usually a big overlap between the two), we as societyshould not condone behaviour which by definition is harmful. We should work to help the affected people address the root issues.
On the issueof whether homo or bisexuLity or trans genderism falls into a categoryof good for society i would humbly suggest reading some of the philosophical writings in support of it. In my readings of it (e.g. John corvinos “whats wrong with hiomosexuality) the arguments FOR it are very thin, and basically come down to “it seems to mke people happy”. The rest of thee writing is mainly argument agaist why its bad, rather than putting forward a case for why its good.
If “it makes them happy” is the only argument for a behaviour, then there is literally no end of behaviour that could be put in the same box. There would be literaally no concensual sexual behaviour that wouldnt be regarded as good – defecating on each other, incest, bestiality, you can build out the list.
Yet most people would say that mere connt is not enough to make these things good. Most people would say perhaps there is an underlying issuethat is causing some dysfunction – lets address that.
I personally favour this view – i dont dispute the gnenuine feelings of those affected. But i am yet to see any real arguments as to why these things should be regarded as good things which we should encourage, rather than dysfucntions that we should seek to help.
I dont think there is a single person on the planet who doesnt have some dysfunction in their life so there is no room for bullying or otherwise excluding people subject to these issues. But in the absence of any philosophical reasons why we should regard these things as good i cant see why we would encourage them.
And that is especially so with kids. Im a straight man. As a kid i wore my mothers shoes and clothes. My son wears his mothers shoes sometimes. This is natural development – we should not be sexualising otherwise innocent behaviours.
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February 5, 2017 at 12:12 am
Clapham:
Not only is the phrase “it seems to make people happy” a weak argument I believe that sentiment is disingenuous and comes from a mind not really trying to address the situation so it has no appeal to my common sense.
I also don’t believe that parents sexualize their children because they want to wear adult clothing but I do believe that children develop as they are designed to develop according to the life force operating within their being.
As far “as to why these things should be regarded as good things which we should encourage, rather than dysfunctions that we should seek to help.” These attributes also should not be viewed through a lens as “good” or “bad” any more than gestational anomalies should be considered good or bad. To the person born with an anomaly of deformed limbs or no limbs, downs syndrome or any host of other afflictions people come into the world with, these occur often enough to be considered normal dysfunctions to people without the afflictions but certainly not to those who have them.
Sometimes we have to look at birth defects, diseases, maladies as life dealing hands from a deck of cards that we all have to deal with as you mentioned, there are enough affliction s to go around.
My argument is that homosexual attraction is a hand, some people are dealt in life and they in turn try to make the best of the design they are dealt: good and bad are relative terms for individuals to determine and not just for society as a whole which is why we don’t condemn poor people to the poor house anymore, there is enough wealth in society as a whole to provide a social net of assistance in lots of ways for people unable to fend for themselves as circumstances dictate. That’s why we build ramps for wheelchair accessibility, hospitals and social programs for everybody. These are for the commons for the commonwealth of everybody: fire stations, ambulances, police, military, roadways and transportation and the electricity grid. Socializing works extremely well for things we all need and use. Previous (or currently) socialized things we take for granted: water systems including reservoirs, sewage treatment facilities, freeways (that particular socialist project of roadways even has the word “free” in it), public parks, public schools, libraries, public lands, national parks, the CIA, the FBI, the FDA, the FCC; and even the dreaded FAA, that oppressive outfit that keeps our airplanes from crashing into each other.
We don’t lock people away in the Insane Asylums but now they are in residential homes in the community to try and encourage them to feel as normal as they possible can and as normal as we can possibly make them feel. We try our darnedest n to to discourage people from being who they are meant to be as they determine for themselves and not as other believe they should be which brings me to a comparative analogy regarding men who born in female bodies and women born in male bodies because to me gender is determined essentially by what’s between your ears, the brain and not what’s between your legs oftentimes as the two get mixed up a lot. So what do they do as individuals who are subject to the love and compassion and how should we accept those born in a such a conundrum with the same kind of love and compassion as humans are designed to have despite the expressions they use to demonstrate their instinctual drives.
So here is my analogy:
Cleft lip (cheiloschisis) and cleft palate (palatoschisis), which can also occur together as cleft lip and palate, are variations of a type of clefting congenital deformity caused by abnormal facial development during gestation.
Substituting the term homosexuality for the clefting example; otherwise, known as “same sex” attraction, I submit that some bodies develop genitalia anomalies in gestation separately and differently from brain gender development in the same way as the cleft anomaly occurs in the human population in both sexes.
I further submit that a surgical operation to correct the gestation anomaly that reverses the physical genitalia anomaly (sex change) to conform with the brain gender (the real determinant gender seat) is every bit as valid and should be every bit as acceptable as an operation to repair as is the the cleft anomaly.
Furthermore I submit that the Brain/Body anomaly while as unseemly perhaps as the cleft lip anomaly may be to the majority of society, is not an abomination by any means; certainly, not to those who understand this as an anomaly of biological function.
In addition this anomaly occurs in the general population from normal heterosexual activity more than general society cares to admit to, especially religious societies that have readily adopted and approved “The Biblical Word” and admonish others because of ancient religious tradition, tradition formulated by societies that did not understand gestation deficiencies any more than they understood the so called “demonic possession” (of epileptics) as a function of neurology anomalies.
Whether the gender anomaly is corrected by physical surgery or not is not the issue here entirely however; the main issue is that society in general and religious sects in particular must recognize the anomaly for what it is and accept it with understanding, especially in light of the preponderance of evidence that many parishioners, priests and preachers in all walks of religion are themselves afflicted by this anomaly and therefore (treating others as they want to be themselves treated) should be tolerant of their fellow humans out of compassion if not outright shame for ostracizing the LGBT Community amid the LGBT’s many pleas (prayers) to be accepted as normal human beings freckles and all.
Having a gender anomaly does not inevitably lead to a psychosocial problem. However, adolescents with gender anomalies are at an elevated risk for developing psychosocial problems especially those relating to self-concept, peer relationships and appearance. A gender anomaly may impact an individual’s self-esteem, social skills and behavior and contribute to the Closet Syndrome by the hate culture most responsible for alienating them, Religion.
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February 5, 2017 at 1:32 am
You make some good points. However we need to come back to the issue of what morality is and what we as society should encourage, and what we should discourage / try correct. If we use human flourishing (as per sam harris) as a benchmark it allows us to make judgement calls. And we have to make these calls for society to function – otherwise we end up with anarchy.
The examples you cite of cleft lip etc are good ones. In all of those examples we aim to help people move towards an optimal functioning – fix the lip, use prosthesis etc. schiophrenics will go to the therapy as will others with mental or other difficulties to try and resolve them. We recognise the conditions as sub optimal for the person and society and we do our best to address them – for the benefit of the person and society.
We dont diminsh thier worth – we affirm it by helping them participate as fully in a functioning society as possible.
So when it comes to which sexual behaviors and / or orientations we should affirm and encourage as society and which we should discourage we must apply the same filter. Because this will shape the world for future generations.
This is why we need to know whether e.g. Incest is good or bad. Why shouldnt two people of the same or different gender but in the same family have sex?
And this is why we need to ask the same question of homosexual (amd even heterosexual) behaviours.
This is why i quoted the “it seems to make them happy” quote. Because lots of arguments as to why homosexuality is wrong have been put forward – some bad arguments but some very strong. Yet i am still to see strong arguments i. Favour of it – so if you are up for it google “arguments for homosexuality”. Basically there isnt as far as i can tell anything else.
So if on consideration of all the evidence we conclude that this isnt something good then we as society should (1) act with integrity and ackowledge that (2) assist thise who are prone to it.
If we find that it is a good thing then by all means lets embrace it. And im very keen to hear the arguments and evidence for it.
Si ilarly with transgender i dont deny that there are people born with both genitalia – thise are however (as far as i can tell) not the core of the public debate on this. Its people born with unambigious genitalia and chromosomes, but believe / self identify as being in the “wrong bidy”.
Its become extremely unpopular to suggest that this is sperhpas some mental / emotional issue that should be addressed. Instead its a phsical solution thats required. Yet there plainly is not physical solution. Cutting off you penis and taking hirmones simply does not make you a woman.
However if an adult chooses to do this, that is their call. However i cant help but feel that children, how are probe to all manner of confusion, should very much be directed to resolving the mental /. Emotional issues they face, rather than affirming they are in the “wrong body”. Not doing so is the same as saying to the schizophrenic or blind person that they are fine just as they are and offering no help to address a very obvious problem.
Coming back to your original point on loving your neighbour – loving a person does not mean ignoring their problem and simply giving platitudes. Its means ackowledging and engaging with it and helping them have the most fruitful possible life in society
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February 5, 2017 at 9:05 am
Clapham:
I really appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with you about these matters as they are so important to be seen as part of the process of mankind’s evolution; we’re not there yet but we are closing the gap, it’s only been a hundred years since the woman could vote, since we could fly and drive in cars and have light from other than an ignited candle or lamp on the kitchen table, computers, nano technology, quantum theory, medicinal stem cell therapy……This is the exponential reality we live in and we are going somewhere very fast as long as Trump and Others keep there fingers away from the nuclear option when killing all life itself is as good a reason to wipe out civilization as the suicide bomber’s reason for detonating himself into skin and bone fragments and as many people as s/he can destroy at the same time, to simply go to a supernatural paradise of ancient creators’ imagination that does not exist.
Whenever I hear people commenting about the why’s of humanity especially the sexual why’s: procreation they say, is because we want to and must pass on our genes to the next generation, that it’s the driving force behind sexual activity. This imaginative observation always makes me smile because it is too academic in its simplicity. I have never thought about passing on my genes in the midst of a sexual encounter so while academia may look for a simple answer the gene passing thing is never on my radar and I doubt it is on the radar of the hornets flying around the female, killing their neighbors so they can be the lucky or skillful one to survive and mate with the emerging female hornet. I believe this is why we call it “being horny”.
When I hear people suggesting treatment for same sex attraction, this always makes me smile too because there is no brain treatment or remedy for brain gender identity and don’t be mislead by the age old adage that lifestyle is a choice and that only the physical flesh should be the focus of a remedy.
There have been and still are factions who think that same sex attraction is a physical condition, a life style choice that can be managed and changed with a few psychological sessions but from where I sit the Brain is the center of human functioning and not the appendages that are merely conduits to the Decider Center. Trying to change a gay person to be straight has about the same percentage cure rate as trying to change a heterosexual into a homosexual..yeah go on and try it and you’ll like it……not in my lifetime would that ever happen.
Now here is an example to consider.
Sexual Sensory Perception like Hearing is a purely mechanical process. I use my thoracic and abdominal muscles so that I can use my thoracic cavity as a bellows to produce a draft of air that will pass across my larynx and by tautening or slackening the vocal chords, I’ll produce vibrations that are projected into the atmosphere and caught by two cup shaped appendages which you have on the side of your head and they’re focused on the outer membrane called the eardrum that begins to vibrate in harmony with the vibrations that I’m producing in my throat and you see, attached to that outer membrane, the eardrum, there’s a little bone called the hammer that’s in contact with another little bone called the anvil and it begins to strike it, motivated by the eardrum in harmony with the vibrations that I’m producing in my throat and that little bone, the anvil, is in touch with another little bone called the stirrup, so called, because it’s like what you might use if you were riding a horse and that, in its turn, is in contact with an inner membrane that contains fluid and the vibrations are communicated through the fluid to the nerve end that then convey an impulse to a certain area of your brain; and then, you know exactly what I’m talking about. You see, it’s purely a mechanical process. You don’t hear anything with your ear, you know that, vibrations are simply communicated, where you hear is in the brain.
When humans can escape the religious superstitious nonsense of ancient men who claimed to speak on behalf of the gods they will understand just how wrong the Holy Books are when it comes to humanity: (religious insanity that dictates three quarters of the world’s population!)
when we no longer take our children to the church for a diagnosis of demon possession, we take them to a neurologist for a diagnosis of epilepsy(Sam Harris cites this common sense observation in his lectures);
when we no longer killed our children to appease the gods for rain in a drought season, and opened the sluice gates of the reservoirs built for the drought times that come occasionally; (part of man’s intelligent evolution)
when we no longer set sail across the ocean while a hurricane is forming off shore even though we cannot see it from the wharf in the harbor and set sail amid prayers for a safe journey; (meteorology)
when we no longer condemn the disable because their infirmities are the result of the sins of religious disobedience against the wishes of the gods;
when we no longer kill gays because their lifestyle expression is different from the genital expression religious expectation demands.
When oh humanity, will you awake from the stupor that men of stoneage mentality, who had not yet invented the wheel, put you in, as the way of life they decreed for humanity way back then, and which continues to dictate from the tomb the way you ought to live today?
When oh humanity, will you shed the shackles of ancestral superstition and supernaturalfragilisticexpialidocious nonsense?
SHORT VERSION:
SEXUALITY AND GENDER IDENTITY: Biological sex is identified based on the external genitalia (i.e. penis or vagina) and gonads (i.e. testes or ovaries) present in an individual. In contrast, gender identity refers to the self-identification in the brain of an individual as female or male. Most of the time sex and gender identity go hand in hand. However, unusual genetics may lead to biological sex ambiguities, discrepancies, and gender identity confusion. In other words what’s between your legs does not necessarily express what is in your brain and as we all know, ears do not hear anything, where you hear is in the brain; the organs are but conduits to the brain which is where the human computer determinate (the Brain) and gender identity resides. And no amount of “treatment” intervention after the fact of birth is going to change that so treatment is out of the question when it comes to changing the brain gender of a man or a woman. I love Sam Harris’s intellect but the “flourishing of society” is just an academic assumption to describe the greatest force governing all living creatures from mice, men, mold and pathogens; all subject every bit by the life forces as much as we are subject to gravity, electricity and magnetism, the GEM factor. Amid things yet to be discovered, invented until we find our cause in the cosmic source of the life forces because we will not stop until we arrive at that point.
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February 5, 2017 at 12:55 pm
I dated a girl who was straight, the a lesbian for several years (lived with her girlfriend) and is now married to a guy. We should be very careful about being certain about what can and cant change.
Similarly our views may in 100 years seem completely mistaken to future generations. We should i think be quite humble about our place in history.
Tthe issues is not whether have x or y desire or inclination. The case is whether to adt on it is good or not. It doesnt help anyone to say i have a natural inclination to lie or steal (kleptomaniac). The question is whether it is good to act in accordance with your natural desire. And that is the question we must ask here.
And similarly with trans issues there is no reason to think that the issues in the brain cant be dealt with – or perhaps just as importantly, that dressing up the outside will resolve the inner turmoil. In fact it seems highly unlikely that it will – the only real solution is to deal with whats inside. See is interesting article in the wall street journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120
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February 5, 2017 at 5:00 pm
I would argue that the underlying psycho-social troubles inside are directly related to the abnormal genitalia on the outside that is not compatible with their inside gender identity that these people have lived with and tried to resolve and tolerate all their life.
Many people argue that there is no same sex gene responsible for the difference but I submit it, or a series of genes just hasn’t been found yet. Scientist suspected radiation long before they were able to observe it and monitor it with the first geiger counter.
The Geiger counter is an instrument used for measuring ionizing radiation used widely in such applications as radiation dosimetry, radiological protection, experimental physics and the nuclear industry.
It detects ionizing radiation such as alpha particles, beta particles and gamma rays using the ionization effect produced in a Geiger–Müller tube; which gives its name to the instrument. In wide and prominent use as a hand-held radiation survey instrument, it is perhaps one of the world’s best-known radiation detection instruments.
The original detection principle was discovered in 1908 at the Cavendish laboratory, but it was not until the development of the Geiger-Müller tube in 1928 that the Geiger-Müller counter became a practical instrument.
This is just another example of how the evolution of mankind grows and grows and suddenly new medicine come about as the result of man’s, pioneering spirit to search for the truth only event; knowledge can reveal.
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February 5, 2017 at 9:15 pm
clapham common tree:
LGBT community members come from the heterosexual community. And since the LGBT Community is a by-product of the Heterosexual Community maybe we ought to start looking at the hetero-community to see what the connection is between that so called “normal” community and its offspring that make up the LGBT community.
One important fact nobody seems to want to talk about is that the LGBT is not an entity in and of itself; the LGBT Community consists of the sons and daughters of the heterosexual community.
Instead of focusing on the abnormality of its children by placing the onus on them to explain themselves, let’s refocus the conversation about what common abnormal lifestyle(s) in the heterosexual community are at play that contribute to the LGBT community heterosexuals despise.
It seems to me that LGBT is merely an “effect” of the heterosexual community “cause”. So let’s reverse the blame game role and reflect. Let’s try to isolate the conditions in the hetero community that precipitates a fundamental shift in the procreative effect of the community it gives birth to.
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February 5, 2017 at 9:17 pm
Even if they find the gene thebquestion will still remain whether acting in accordance with it is good – in the same way that if they found a kleptomaniac gene it would still need to be asked whether that made stealing good.
As for the problem in trans lying with the genitalia, that wsj article suggests that the problem isnt resolved by changing genitlaia – its not even correct to use that term becuase you cant actually chamge them. Far more likely to really help people suffering with this to address the e,eotional / Mental issues that give rise to the problem.
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February 5, 2017 at 9:31 pm
I have no problem with that at all. This is my point about examining both hetro, homo and all other behaviours – encourage the good, help correct the bad.
I mentioned earlier that i think everyone has some dysfunction in their lives – so we all have some thing to address to help make society better. However the starting point is ackowledging what is good and what is bad so we can correct them.
I personally think the breakdown of healthy family structures caused. By host of things has contributed to the confusion in society. And when we look at the role models modern society throws out and their views of sexuality and gender roles theres no suprise that we have a confused society.
Im not in favour of “blaming” people. Im in favour of recognising what is good and bad and helping build a better society for all based on that. That means that each one of us will invariably recognise that our dysfunction conteibutes to societys dysfunction and we need to address it – not paper over it.
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February 5, 2017 at 9:44 pm
Leo, I just re read the article cited in the original post on this. The policy change by the scouts includes Cubs – these are kids single digit in age. To suggest that a child that age can self identify with any level of integrity as anything is quite flakey ridiculous. Every “tom boy” girl is all of a sudden a candidate for hormone therapy to make her a girl. And as for the confusion this must create in the other kids minds….
I really can’t see how this can possibly be seen as sensible.
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February 7, 2017 at 8:52 am
As an adult Scouter, I thought I’d offer my two kopecks worth –
First the whole homosexuality issue and Scouts – the ruling a few years ago was, In my opinion and the opinion of many other Scouters, simply “corporate” acknowledging something that’s been going on since day one. If you don’t think there were gay Scouts in the BSA until the ruling came along, you’re sadly mistaken.
As a youth in Scouts, I knew of a few gay Scouts (even one in my Troop), but no one had any issues that I was ever aware of.
As an adult in Scouts, I know of several youth camp staff that are gay (some more openly than others), but again, no issues whatsoever that I’ve ever heard about.
Not that I’m advocating it, but there just isn’t the issue that a lot of people think there may be – at least not among the youth.
I think perhaps the main concern was with adult Scouters. However, most adult leaders at the Troop and (with younger kids) the Pack level are parents with one or more kid in the actual Pack or Troop; i.e. the chance that you’re going to get a gay adult leader in a given Scout Troop or Cub Pack are pretty slim to nil.
I think one is apt to see that more at the Council level and above (Corporate) where adults are not necessarily parent volunteers; they’re hired just as with any other place of employment.
As far as the whole transgender thing is concerned, again, I don’t see this as being nearly as big a thing as some make it out to be – just because it’s Scouts, it makes the headlines; if it were happening at your local place of employ, no one would give it a second thought.
I can’t see how this would affect youth at the Troop and Pack level. The only thing I can think of is that if a boy suddenly identified himself as a girl, my guess is that s/he’s not going to want to remain in the program; it’s for boys after all. Conversely, I suppose you could have a girl who identifies as a boy and wants to join a Pack/Troop. Honestly, I think the instances where that would happen would be almost astronomical; not saying it wouldn’t, just extremely rare.
Again, I think some of the main concern is with adult Scouters, however, adult leaders both at the Scout and Cub level can be male or female, so I’m not sure I really see a huge issue here.
A lot of hype about what, in reality, is virtually a non-issue.
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February 7, 2017 at 8:55 am
With all of the above said – I have to agree with many; it kind of deflates the Scout Oath passage of “I will keep myself morally straight…..” – although I suppose that could be argued as well depending on one’s definition of “morally straight”,
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February 9, 2017 at 9:57 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-38787706
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