“Look, you’re not going to come up with the Nicene Creed by just picking up the Bible. Does the Bible contribute to our understanding? Absolutely it does; the Nicene Creed is consistent with Scripture. But you needed a church that had a self-understanding in order to articulate that in any clear way.”—Frank Beckwith
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/mayweb-only/119-33.0.html
Thinking to Believe 
May 17, 2007 at 8:28 am
So you can’t find “very god of very god” in the Bible, neither can you find “initial evidence” or “standards of holiness.”
Can we find the UPCI Manual’s statement of doctrine in the Bible? Of course, I mean word for word. Much of it you can because in parts it just quotes Scripture.
This raises many questions. What is the difference between creeds, confessions, statements/affirmations of faith, and denominational manuals? How are they useful? And how do we understand something to be biblical if not repeated in the exact words of Scripture? How should we go about formulating (and, uh-oh, enforcing) doctrine?
I’m just playing devil’s advocated. Lot of questions here.
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May 17, 2007 at 9:25 am
Jason,
It reminds me of the movie “A Few Good Men.” The defense counsel suggests to witness Howard that a “Code Red” is not a part of the Marines because it’s not in the handbook for new recruits. Howard replies that maybe it’s not a Marine term, just a Gitmo term. So defense counsel pulls out the Marine Corps Guide to Sentry Duty, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. No such term in the local book, either.
The prosecutor Kaffee (Tom Cruise) picks up one of the books, takes it to Howard:
KAFFEE: “Corporal, would you turn to the page in this book that says where the enlisted men’s mess hall is?”
HOWARD: “Lt. Kaffee, that’s not in the book, sir.”
KAFFEE: “I don’t understand, how did you know where the enlisted men’s mess hall was if it’s not in this book?”
HOWARD: “I guess I just followed the crowd at chow time, sir.”
KAFFEE: “No more questions.”
KAFFEE chucks the book back on ROSS’s desk.
Arthur
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May 21, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Chad,
I don’t think Beckwith’s point pertained specifically to the wording of the Nicene creed, but rather to the concepts of the creed. Evidence for this interpretation comes from what he said immediately preceding the quoted section: “However, I do think we have to admit that the way that we read Scripture is through the ideas and concepts that have been passed down to us by a great tradition.”
I will be the last person you’ll find arguing that we can’t use non-Biblical (as opposed to un-biblical) terminology to explain Biblical doctrines. See my article at http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/nonbibvocab.htm in which I argue against the standard Oneness argument that “Trinity” is not found in Scripture, therefore it is false.
I think the difference between creeds, confessions, statements of faith, and denominational manuals is varied. One, they carry a descending level of authority (“bindingness”). All of them, however, try to state beliefs in a concise manner.
The oversimplified answer to your question is that we first get a proper understanding of the texts, and then we translate that into language that explains the meaning of those texts rather than simply quoting them as proof texts on a string. While we may try to use as much Biblical terminology as possible, some non-biblical terminology will often be illusory to our understanding.
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May 21, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Arthur,
Not an exact parallel (none is), but a good illustration of the basic point.
Jason
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September 21, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus who is God most High.
Frankly! I would have to affirm with the church of Christ: “Where the holy scriptures speak I speak. And where the scriptures stop I stop.”
Or in other words I strive to allow my conscience to be bound unto the words of God most High. (Not creeds, statements of andfaith/affirmations and denominational manuals which were created by men. But pure, premium, and authentic holy scripture.)
God bless you always! in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Marquest Burton
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