In the reader forum at William Lane Craig’s website, an individual going by the name Dreyshock posed an interesting question: Does God have opinions? Theists agree that God is omniscient—meaning He has the property of knowing all and only true propositions—but does such knowledge include opinions? Does God think Monet was a better painter than Picasso, or that Bach’s music was more beautiful than the Beatles’? Does God think Gothic architecture is beautiful?
There are three options:
(1) God does not have subjective opinions. The property of knowing all and only true propositions excludes the possibility of God having opinions, because opinions are neither true or false.
(2) God does have opinions, and His opinions are the right opinions (someone holding a contrary opinion would be wrong in their opinion).
(3) God does have opinions, but His opinions are neither right nor wrong (someone could hold a contrary opinion without being considered wrong in that opinion).
What do you think? I have some thoughts, but I’ll hold off in sharing them until I hear from you.
Thinking to Believe 
May 1, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I think God is more eclectic that we will ever be. Just look at creation! He saw that it was all good. He gave us variety which means He must like variety. Therefore He may like Monet equally as much as He likes Picasso.
He also gives us our abilities. So He may be more inclined to recognize effort than the end result.
But if I have to pick, I would chose #1.
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May 1, 2008 at 6:45 pm
For Elohim, the transcendental God of Genesis 1, I pick #1.
For Yahweh, the personal God of Genesis 2, who walked in the Garden and talked with humans, I pick #3. Yahweh smells burnt offerings, repents, has regrets, feels pain in his heart, etc.
“And Noah … offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.” Gen 8:20-21
God repents: “And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.” Exodus 32:14. “I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.” Jeremiah 18:8.
Genesis 6:6 says “The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain.”
Jonah 3:10 says “When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.”
Exodus 32:14 says “Then the LORD relented and did not bring on His people the disaster He had threatened.”
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May 1, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I’ve been rolling this question around in my mind for a couple of days … and I think I’ve reached a conclusion.
(4) Both (1) and (2).
Now, I know that you were sort of looking for an all-or-nothing type of answer, but hear me out. And, I warn you, I’m just a layman with a couple of philosophy classes under my belt.
As best I can tell, God views everything as ‘good’ or ‘not good’ by one criteria – the condition of the heart. To quote someone smarter than I (TS Eliot), “The last temptation is the greatest treason; to do the right deed for the wrong reason.”
Was Bach’s music beautiful? Yes. Were the Beatles groundbreaking? Absolutely. Which is better? In human terms, that’s an entirely subjective thought. But for God, I think He would only ask one question – What is the intent? Does the art/music/act glorify Him? If so, then it is good. If not, then it is not good.
God does not have subjective opinions, but He does place value on things that humans value in a subjective manner. If Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel for the right reason – to glorify God – then the work is good. If not, then it is not good. Is it awe inspiring? Yes. As humans, do we view it with a sort of wonder? Speaking personally, yes, we do. But God ONLY values it as good if it were done with the proper intent, and only God can know if something is truly good.
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May 5, 2008 at 5:49 am
It is not opinion but fact that Monet’s painting is greater than Picasso and that Bach’s music is more beautiful than the Beatles’!
I say this in jest, but I do take my music and art pretty serious! For instance, I have come to love Baroque and Classical music, Bach, Handel, and Mozart in particular, and to loathe a good bit of that monstrous thing called 20th century “classical” or symphonic music. In my opinion, the former is far more beautiful than most of the latter. Of course, all would say that that is just my opinion. I agree, it is my opinion.
What I do not agree with is that all notions of beauty are subjective. Beauty belongs in the realm of truth and goodness and these are measured ultimately by God. There is an ultimate standard for truth, goodness, and beauty and it is God.
This seems evident from Creation with all of its diversity, color, size, and order. Why is it that humans seem to a universal sense of awe when looking upon the night sky, the mountains, the ocean, and the Grand Canyon? I think it is a reflection of several things: that there is a Creator, that Creation is awe-some, and that Creation is beautiful. God is the consummate artist.
So, I would lean towards #2 or #3, but the most towards #2.
And I would not agree totally with ‘b’, whoever that is (interesting name). I do think that intent matters to God, but not intent alone. A person may draw an animal defecating in the woods supposedly “for God’s glory” but most of us wouldn’t find that beautiful and I would say that in that case we are probably reflecting the one in whose image we were made. I think the subject, the content, the colors, the melody, the harmony, etc. all matter. I suppose one who is motivated to do such things for God’s glory is going to be driven to certain topics, subjects, content, order, etc., but within a broad range of diversity. This too, I think, reflects the Creator.
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May 5, 2008 at 1:21 pm
This is so interesting. Hmmm, well are we considering God from His divine conscious or His human conscious? From God’s divine conscious, I say 1. From His Human conscious, I say 2. I know this more than likely makes it seem like I am portraying God as having a “split personality” – yet that is not my intenstion – but the incarnation aspect just really made everything complex! LOL.
I believe that through His genuine humanity, God DOES have opinions. And they are always right. But through His transcending Spirit nature, once again, I choose 1.
But for some reason, I just feel that there is something more to this…*shrugs*…anticipating more answers!
Hmmm….
WAIT! I am thinking 2 for both now (the divine and human conscious of God)…when God made Adam, He decided that it was not good for man to be alone…wasnt that an opinion?
Hmmm….
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May 5, 2008 at 10:18 pm
It’s a shame that Chad doesn’t click on my link, else he would know that he knows me … 😉
I think that Chad should reconsider his position and his assessment of my response, and then further consider whether our artistic ability (as we define and measure talent) even matter to God.
My issue is this – you can take two singers: one of incredible talent and artistic ability, and the other an average-at-best church choir member. Have them sing the same song. The talented singer could hit all the notes, be technically perfect, flawless in execution, perfect in pitch and with such precision that natural harmonic overtones are produced … but without singing from the heart with the intent to worship and glorify God, God would dismiss it as a stench in His nostrils. Then, the mediocre-at-best choir member could sing the same song, and miss the notes, and stumble over an entrance, and have an intonation that is off, but sing with sincerity and conviction in her heart, and reach the throne of God and please Him.
When we try to say that someone is artistically better and, therefore, more able to glorify God, we take the humanity and intent out of worship. Can anyone sing with the beauty of an angel? Can any artist paint a picture and beautiful as God’s canvas across the horizon? No. And no matter how talented the musician/artist/singer/songwriter/whatever, compared to an awesome, divine, all-powerful God, their abilities are just vapor.
And to Micheal, I reject God having a human consciousness. To be human, as best I can tell, is to be flawed, to be limited by the flesh; even when He was on the earth, Jesus wasn’t limited by the human consciousness. He was, and always is, omniscient.
To dismiss God’s will as subjective – which is required for it to be an opinion – is to say that God is neither right nor wrong, or that God’s will isn’t perfect and superior to all other wills. Why did God make man with two arms instead of three? It seemed good to Him. And, because He is good in Himself (that is, God is good and all things He does are good because He does them – God is the ultimate measure of good), what He does becomes the measure of what is good. His will? Good. His “opinion” (to the degree that God can have an opinion) – the only truly good position to take. A contrary position isn’t a different yet equally valid opinion; it is a wrong position.
To me, the question posed ultimately goes back to the question that I believe Socrates asked – “Is an act good because God wills it, or does God will it because it is good?” By asking this question, it goes to the point of authority – does God have the ultimate authority to determine good and evil, or does a measure of good and evil exist above God, that God is subject to? I argue the former – an act is good BECAUSE it is the will of God. By simply willing it, it becomes the measure of good.
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May 6, 2008 at 5:50 am
‘B’ – I have found you out! Ha! It’s great to run into you in the blogosphere, and check your blogs, I have found you!
Btw, I understand your point. I fully concede that a person singing “poorly” with humility and intent to glorify God alone is more glorifying to God than a much greater singer by talent singing the same song. My point was that not all acts/songs/art or whatever is necessarily God glorifying or beautiful because of the intent of the author/artist.
This is not something we have to or will necessarily agree on but it is an interesting discussion.
I do think that God is the standard for beauty, truth, and goodness. These are all notions of perfection, and as you’ve stated they are not mere “opinions.” Nevertheless, in all matters, I think God indeed has His “opinion”, i.e. His view of the matter, and by definition this is the perfect view of the matter. I do think that it would be a mistake however to think that God does not enjoy beauty and things of beauty including both His creation and what some of His creatures–Humans–do.
I think we all would readily admit that God is truth and that God is good (very biblical statements), He defines them, they are His very nature. Although I don’t think His defining is as easy as you claim: what God decides (what He wills) is simply good or true. I think it is more complicated than that. Truth and goodness (and beauty) are more than results or outcomes of God’s will and decisions they are a part of His very character and nature. Indeed, what He decides is good! But it is good because He is good and He cannot act other than He is. In other words, we can be confident that tomorrow morning when we wake up God will still be good and not wicked or capricious.
It is also biblical to say that God is beautiful or lovely, and indeed He defines the beautiful as well. We may say here on earth, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” meaning that the human mind attributes beauty as it perceives it and that it is not in the object itself, but that doesn’t account well that some things are so widely acknowledged as beautiful. Evidently, there are some things which cause the same perception of beauty to many beholders! In other words, I don’t think that beauty can be ascribed to perception alone but does indeed reside in the object perceived. Thus, in the end, I think we will learn that beauty is real and objective but the problem is our ability to perceive it. That our minds, endowed with certain categories and powers of reason, perception, and dispositions, are similar to the mind of our Maker who is free of all that inhibits our ability to perceive beauty. Indeed, He not only perceives but actually knows what is truly beautiful. And this is more than His opinion, what He regards as true, good, and beautiful truly is as He regards it.
This brings up some interesting questions. Will God destroy all human art and music prior to second coming of Christ? Will the history of human endeavor, art, and thought have any place or consideration or continuation in the Kingdom?
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May 6, 2008 at 5:56 am
Hello Brad, MichAEl here 🙂
You mentioned this:
And to Micheal, I reject God having a human consciousness. To be human, as best I can tell, is to be flawed, to be limited by the flesh; even when He was on the earth, Jesus wasn’t limited by the human consciousness. He was, and always is, omniscient.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
That is just one verse of many which confirms the genuine humanity of Jesus. Question – how can one genuinely be human yet not have a human conscious?
Additionally, in His humanity, Jesus was indeed limited by a human conscious, which would explain instances where only God the Father knew something but the Son (Jesus albeit humanity) did not (i.e. Mark 13:32)
Jesus is the Word, the Word is God, and He was made flesh – this incarnation was authentic, and therefore God willingly chose to exist in the likeness of men, which included a human consciousness. Back to my original stance, since God chose to additionally become a man, therefore additionally operating through a genuine human consciousness, what would prevent him from having opinions in accordance to His human life?
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May 6, 2008 at 7:29 am
Michael,
I don’t think it is helpful to understand the question of God appreciating beauty from the standpoint of the divine / human natures of Jesus of Nazareth, our Lord.
Indeed Jesus to be truly human did have, must have had, a human consciousness. I agree here. How else could have had true human experiences, been fully human, prayed, learned, developed, and grew?
Nevertheless the point seems superfluous in relation to the current discussion. The question is, does the eternal, Almighty, omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-sapient (look that one up), God have “opinions” about beauty, art, music, or even your wardrobe and hairstyle? Ha!
Brad,
Another question for you about the poor singer singing to God’s glory versus the marvelously talented singer singing in pride. If the performance is neither here nor there, that it doesn’t really matter to God, then where does our sense of “trying to get it right” come from? I understand that both a poor performance and a better performance (technically, artistically, etc.) can bring praise to God, but why do we try to get it right? In other words, why do we practice, prepare, seek order, enjoy and strive for some sense of beauty, appreciation, etc. in putting together music for, in your example, worship in church? Is it merely for our sakes as the human participants? Or are we imaging God to some degree?
One other question, I would have to believe that, to some degree, all things here on earth are significant, and that we have a sense of their significance. Now granted many things we hold as significant are not! But is the work of an artist, painter, composer significant or not? Do works of beauty – art and music – matter? Why is it significant?
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May 6, 2008 at 11:44 am
Hello Chad.
If Jesus is God, and Jesus retains a human nature that is one with His divine nature, and it is through a human nature that one would have “opinions” as we have been describing them, why is that not relevant to the discussion? To me, it seems to be a crux to the discussion.
I believe that Jesus is the “Almighty, omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-sapient (look that one up -(I know what that means, thanks), God “… Chad, are you insinuating that He (Jesus) is not whom you just described and therefore that is why its superflous in relation to the current discussion as you claim?
Considering the nature of God (His Spirit and human nature as one), why would He not have opinions? IS God’s human nature no longer authentic in that He no longer has “opinions”? Did Jesus EVER have opinions? If that can be proved (if), then when did that genuine attribute of God cease? I am assuming by default that Jesus did indeed have opinions through His authentic Human nature. When did that cease?
FYI – I am not agressively set on any answer, I am just pondering like everyone else. This is all very interesting! But I do believe the nature of Jesus is relevant, for He is fully God.
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May 6, 2008 at 2:30 pm
To Chad, RE: I do think that God is the standard for beauty, truth, and goodness. These are all notions of perfection, and as you’ve stated they are not mere “opinions.” Nevertheless, in all matters, I think God indeed has His “opinion”, i.e. His view of the matter, and by definition this is the perfect view of the matter. I do think that it would be a mistake however to think that God does not enjoy beauty and things of beauty including both His creation and what some of His creatures–Humans–do.
I think you are simply restating my point, or, at least, stating what I intended to be my point more clearly. God can be and often is pleased with what His children do, yet He is also at times offended and disgusted by our actions, as well. I think of it as a parent, who places a picture by their child on the refrigerator, not because of some high artistic talent, but because of the relationship between the parent and the child.
Also, I like what you said about God being good, and so He is good. As I said above, I think you are restating what said or stating my thoughts more clearly, because we seem to agree. God is good, and it is His essence. He cannot act contrary to Himself. As His creation, as image-bearers of God, we carry a sense of good-ness and beauty, so when God says something is good, we agree, not because their is a separate standard of good, or because God determines goodness arbitrarily, but because we and He share that idea of what is good and beautiful.
Finally, regarding your statement: Will God destroy all human art and music prior to second coming of Christ? Will the history of human endeavor, art, and thought have any place or consideration or continuation in the Kingdom?
I don’t know if we will have the same types of artistic expression in Heaven as we do now on earth, but I submit to you this – right now, we see through a lens darkly. In heaven, we will see Him face to face. At that point, our art and music won’t be glimpses or glimmers of heaven, but, rather, we will be able to capture it truly and entirely. C.S. Lewis, in The Great Divorce, talks a little about this, and I think he handles it well.
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May 6, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Michael,
I still don’t see how the humanity of Jesus of Nazareth is relevant to this question. And yes, I believe Jesus of Nazareth to be both Lord and Christ, fully God and fully human. He is the almighty Incarnate [in the flesh] and He now reigns and will reign eternally. I have no trouble thinking that Jesus of Nazareth had opinions, say for instance, about his favorite cut of lamb or his favorite soup or his favorite Jewish song and dance, and He may still have such opinions right now in heaven. I have no idea. The question I think Jason is asking is this, does God, as pertaining to the Divine nature, mind, and consciousness (think pre-incarnation or beyond the incarnation) have “opinions?”
‘B’ – We agree. I’m thrilled! We can only imagine what life in the fulness of the Kingdom will be like. I agree all that we know and see now is a pale image of what is to come. Can you imagine?
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May 7, 2008 at 10:13 am
Chad –
I think you just hit on a key aspect – and it brings me back to my original question/response to this post – I had asked:
well are we considering God from His divine conscious or His human conscious?
And now you just clarified that from your perspective, you think the question was geared toward God pertaining to the divine conscious – the mentality of God pre-incarnation/beyond incarnation. Yeah man, that was what I was asking initially, what angle were we coming from. So from that perspective, hmmm…I am thinking… all things are of God (1 Cor 8:6). That makes me question: how could opinions come into existence yet not in some way be a reflection of the creator? Meaning, we as humans did not “create” the ability to have opinions. God created us, so if He gave us that ability (to have opinions), doesn’t that reflect something of His own nature? And yes, I realize that going down that road can lead to other perspectives that might make some people uneasy (i.e. evil – where it originated, etc)…
Hmmm…
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May 7, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I am excited to see the amount of dialogue this has generated. You never know what topic is going to peek people’s interests. Let me try to briefly interact with what has been said so far.
Anonymous, I’m not sure what variety has to do with opinions. God created a variety of things, yes, but the question is whether he has opinions about the variety of things He created.
Arthur, I don’t buy into the whole JEDP theory, so I can’t buy into your breakdown. As for your Scriptures, none of them speak of God holding an opinion. They might apply to the question of omniscience, and a discussion on anthropomorphisms, but they don’t help answer the question at hand.
B, (1) and (2) are mutually exclusive, so they can’t both be true. As for your suggestion that God judges something good or bad based on intent, this is getting the cart before the horse. You are addressing the basis for God’s opinions, rather than the question of whether or not He even has them. First we have to determine if He does.
In your second post you expanded on this further. Assuming God has opinions, I agree that He probably takes intent into the equation. But let me modify your scenario. Let’s say the great and average singer were both very sincere in singing for God. Would God see both as equally beautiful, or would He say that while both of their hearts are beautiful, one’s voice is more beautiful than the other’s?
As for Christ having a human consciousness, all that means is that He is conscious of Himself as a genuine human being, because He is a genuine human being. It doesn’t denote or connote flaws at all.
You wrote, “To dismiss God’s will as subjective – which is required for it to be an opinion – is to say that God is neither right nor wrong, or that God’s will isn’t perfect and superior to all other wills.” Actually, this is not true. One of the options is that God has opinions, and they are neither right nor wrong, while another option is that He has opinions, and since He is the one who has them they must be right. Then you took a turn talking about God’s goodness. This is not the issue. Of course God is good. The question is whether this good God has opinions about anything, and if He does, whether His opinions are subjective or objective.
Chad, you have hit on a key question. Is beauty objective or subjective. If it is objective, then surely God must provide the foundation for this, and thus (2) or (3) are correct. You argue it must be objective because so many people see the same thing as beautiful. But you also recognize the fact that not everyone will recognize the same thing as beautiful. You ascribe this to people’s inability to perceive the objective beauty, but why should I think this is true? Why not think beauty is truly subjective? That would make more sense on the face of it, rather than telling people something is wrong with them for not seeing the beauty.
I would also agree with your critique of b’s criterion for God’s opinion forming. Intent alone cannot make something beautiful. And I would agree with your second response to b in regards to God’s goodness and will.
Michael, while I was referring to God as God (rather than God as man), you bring up a valid question. It might make a difference. Indeed, if in Christ, God functioned like any other human being, and human beings have opinions, then God would have opinions as well, at least insofar as He is man (and possibly insofar as He is God as well). As for deciding it wasn’t good for man to be alone, was that an opinion, or an objective analysis of the cost-benefit ratio of man being alone?
And I agree with your defense of Christ’s human consciousness.
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May 7, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Jason, I disagree with the idea that an opinion, as we define the term, can be anything but subjective. If it is “right” or “wrong,” then it isn’t an opinion, but a statement of fact. To say “Steak tastes better when cooked rare than when cooked well-done” is an opinion, which is entirely subjective.
I think I am leaning more towards 1, as I’ve thought more about it. I don’t think God takes a position on trivial items that we, as humans, would hold opinions on, including technical quality of music or art, etc. I would reference back to my metaphor of the parent who puts the child’s painting or scribbles on the fridge – not because it is beautiful, but because of the relationship. This, I think, answers Chad’s question for “why practice?” Because we want to give our father the very best.
Regarding your modified scenario, Jason – if both singers sang it with the proper intent, then I believe that God would love their sacrifices equally, and would not give merit to the “quality” of their music. It would be tantamount to God favoring the willing offering of a rich man more than the willing offering of the poor widow … and I think scripture is clear that this isn’t or wouldn’t be the case (especially considering that James strongly chides the church for showing respect to persons based on their wealth or position or affluence; God is no respecter of persons).
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May 7, 2008 at 6:04 pm
You never know what topic is going to peek people’s interests.
I hate to be a pedant, but that’s one of my pet peeves 🙂 Normally it’s misspelled “peak,” which kinda makes sense as their interest is hitting a peak. But it’s actually spelled “pique.”
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May 9, 2008 at 9:13 am
Arthur,
That’s quite alright. I learned something. Thanks!
Jason
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May 13, 2008 at 10:53 am
B (as well as everyone else),
My response to you will reveal my hand, but so be it. There’s been enough discussion that I think it’s time for me to do so anyway.
Yes, all opinions are subjective in at least one sense of the word: they tell you something about the subject. If God has opinions, clearly they would be subjective in this sense. But there is another sense of the word subjective: it may or may not be true.
If God has opinions, it seems to me they would be subjective in the first sense (God, as a subject, holds the opinion), but not in the second (it may or may not be true). As a maximally perfect being God cannot be wrong, even in His aesthetic judgments. After all, how could the author of beauty not be able to perfectly evaluate beauty? Our evaluation is inherently subjective because we are finite, but God is not finite, so his evaluation has a whole other quality to it. So anyone who thinks Picasso was a better painter than Monet would be mistaken if God thinks Monet was a better painter than Picasso.
On this view, beauty is objective, and thus God’s recognition of, or evaluation of beauty is also objective. He is simply measuring beauty like we might measure length. Given this, God’s “opinion” that Monet produced more beautiful works of art that Picasso would not be an opinion in the proper sense of the word. It would be actual knowledge of aesthetic truths (my only problem is that I am not convinced beauty is objective, as I expressed in my comments to Chad). Placing this on the map of my three options, (1) is the correct answer. Option (2) would be mistaken because anything that is objectively true or false is not an opinion, but a fact. Option (3) would be excluded by the truth of option (1), although I tend to think that God, as He exists in Christ, has opinions (such as whether fish tastes better boiled or raw).
As for giving God the best, if God cannot recognize something as more beautiful, how would He tell the difference?
As for the two singers, I don’t think your money analogy is truly analogous. That analogy seems to deal with the issue of God respecting someone’s person. We’re talking about God’s ability to discern the difference between a more beautiful, and less beautiful voice.
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May 13, 2008 at 11:02 am
Jason,
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. Regarding the singers and my analogy, in terms of which is more beautiful, I really think God would judge in a manner similar to my response earlier, as though they were both sincere attempts by His children. I simply can’t fathom God saying one person’s worship is of better artistic quality than another’s.
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May 14, 2008 at 10:34 am
B,
I agree with you that God may enjoy both equally, given that both are equally sincere (although I tend to think sincerety comes in degrees, in which case it is unlikely that in a comparison of two individuals, both would be equally sincere). While God may take pleasure in both singers’ attempts equally, I still think God recognizes the difference in voice quality, and would say one is better than the other. He may enjoy my singing to Him as much as He enjoys some famous Christian singer’s, but if He can’t tell the difference between the (lack of) quality of my singing voice and the famous singer’s, there is a problem. My voice makes William Hung look like Andrea Bocelli!
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September 21, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Greetings! in the name of the Lord Jesus who is God most High.
I affirm that God most High does have opinions and his are the only right opinions that matter and that is the measuring stick of all true opinions. If opinion that contradict God’s opinions then it is automatically false and unreliable to be believed and implemented into daily life.
In other words my view is strictly God centered which means everything evolves around God most High himself. And anything that contradicts God to the slightests degree is not of God.
God bless you always! in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Marquest Burton
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November 26, 2023 at 10:37 am
Could you link to the specific page on the website?
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November 27, 2023 at 10:28 pm
Sorry, I don’t have the URL anymore.
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