Why does somebody need to believe in Jesus to be saved? Our stock answer is so that they will go to heaven, not hell. While true in itself, it obscures the real message of the Gospel because it doesn’t explain why Jesus is necessary, only what the consequences are. It makes God sound petty, and unbelievers are quick to point this out.
A common misconception among Christians and non-Christians alike is that people go to hell because they haven’t heard of Jesus. This is not true. People go to hell because they are guilty of sin. The only way to escape hell is to be innocent of sin, and the only way to be innocent of sin is to accept Christ’s atonement. Men are not even condemned because they don’t believe. They are condemned already. Belief is the only thing that can save them from their condemnation. Their failure to believe simply allows them to reach the destination they were already headed for. People do not die because they don’t visit the doctor, but because they have a disease. Our disease is sin. We will die of this cancer unless we acknowledge that we are incapable of doing anything about it, and seek help from a powerful Doctor.
Other Christians believe people can only go to hell if they have heard of Jesus, and then reject Him. Those who have not heard of Christ are innocent and should be saved because of their ignorance, providing they followed the revelation of God they did have. This view is often called the “light doctrine.” Such a perspective invalidates the Christian message. It turns redemption on its head, making knowledge of Christ the cause of one’s damnation rather than their only hope of escaping sure judgment. It presumes that humanity contracts a disease by visiting the doctor, rather than having the disease by nature. Rest assured that humanity will not escape judgment because of their ignorance. Even those who have not heard of Jesus have sufficient evidence to know of God’s existence/nature and seek after Him, but all fall short of this revelation and are deserving of judgment (Rom 1-3). Without Jesus all would be lost. Jesus is not the cause of anyone’s condemnation—they are condemned already.
God has offered us a solution for our grave condition, but has done so on His terms, not ours. That solution is the person of Christ. He is our pardon, taking the punishment for our sins in our behalf. No one else has done this. Now humanity has a choice. They can either accept the pardon, or refuse to accept it and pay for their own crimes. If we choose to reject Jesus what we are choosing to do is stand before God based on our own works. In light of such a choice we will surely face condemnation. Only by accepting Christ’s work on Calvary on our behalf can we escape the consequences of our sins. That’s the Gospel.
An analogy might be helpful for those you are witnessing to: sin as AIDS. You could say: “AIDS is a treatable, but incurable disease that will lead to inescapable death. What would you say if there was a doctor in Brazil who found a cure for AIDS? This doctor, hearing of your condition, traveled to your residence to offer you the cure free of charge. Rather than graciously accepting the cure you refuse it. What will the outcome be? The outcome will be your inevitable death. Should the doctor be blamed for this? Who is responsible? You could have been cured of your disease at no cost, and with no effort on your part, and yet you refused it. The doctor cannot be faulted for your death—only you can.” End the analogy by pointing out that the message of Christianity is like the message of this doctor: a message of grace. Our message is not a message of hate and condemnation, but a message of hope and healing.
July 1, 2009 at 12:14 pm
This is good stuff, although I tend to take a slightly different tack. We all find ourselves alienated from God, and if this does not change before someone dies, then the situation simply continues forever. Hell is not a “place” where God actively punishes unbelievers; it is a state of relentlessly ongoing separation from God, and those who experience it will suffer eternal regret and remorse, because then they will realize both their default condition and the remedy that they have missed.
Salvation, on the other hand, is having a mutually voluntary and permanent love relationship with God as Lord. It requires not only intellectual assent, but also volitional transformation. This being the case, giving people clear evidence of his mere existence is not one of God’s highest priorities. We should not be surprised that he does not generally conform to human expectations and demands in this respect.
Regarding your AIDS analogy, how would you address the scenario where someone never hears the doctor’s knock on the door, for whatever reason? Could he/she blame the doctor for failing to do everything possible to get his/her attention?
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July 1, 2009 at 3:55 pm
I’m not sure we are really saying much different. Do you agree that the reason people go to hell is because they have disobeyed God, not because they haven’t believed on Jesus? My emphasis is on the fact that what sends people to hell is not their lack of faith in Jesus, but their sin. Jesus is the only one who can help them escape the consequences of their sin, so if they reject Him, they get what they deserve (judgment, hell). If they accept Him, they get what they don’t deserve (mercy, salvation).
I actually do think hell–at least as the final fate of the wicked–is a place. Jesus said that God has the power to destroy both “body and soul” in hell. The righteous will be resurrected to life, but the wicked will be resurrected to damnation. If they have a body, then they must be in space, and space is a place. Where it would be located, I do not know.
You speculated that those in hell will experience regret and remorse. I tend to think it won’t. Notice in Revelation that when God was pouring out His wrath on the people, they still refused to repent. Instead, they hated God all the more for it, blaspheming His name and refusing to give Him glory (Rev 9:20-21; 16:9, 11, 21). I don’t see any reason to believe that they would hate God less if the sufferign was greater. It would most likely increase, for eternity.
Regarding your altered AIDS analogy question, on the Christian worldview, it is impossible to not hear the knock. The knowledge of God belongs to all men, but they suppress it. They purposely drown out the sound of God’s knocking by making noises of their own.
Jason
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July 2, 2009 at 6:14 am
I agree that our differences are more in emphasis than in overall message. And yes, I agree that hell is everyone’s default destination because of sin in general. Although I also think that unbelief is sin–in a sense, the unforgiveable kind–it is not necessary to take this position when defending God’s justice in punishing unbelievers.
Your point about the resurrection is well-taken, and you may be right about regret/remorse; maybe those are the wrong words. Even so, it seems to work better with at least some atheists to focus on hell as non-relationship with God–continuation of their current situation, because God does not force anyone into heaven–rather than active punishment by God.
I get a lot of pushback against the idea that “it is impossible to not hear the knock”. The argument is that if an omniscient and omnipotent God exists, then he knows exactly what it would take to convince me of his existence, and is capable of providing it. Therefore, the fact that I do not believe in his existence is proof that if God exists, he does not care whether I believe that he exists. This, in turn, means that the consequences of non-belief must be minimal, if God is also omnibenevolent; so the atheist has nothing to fear.
Paul K. Moser provides some great ammunition against this kind of “argument from divine hiddenness”. Since God is more interested in mutually voluntary and permanent love relationships than mere belief in his existence, he has good reasons for not necessarily giving us the kind of “spectator evidence” that we tend to expect and demand. Instead, he offers “authoritative evidence” in the form of his personal call, which requires volitional transformation. Needless to say, the atheist will claim never to have received such a call, so God must be arbitrary in deciding who gets such definitive evidence.
This whole debate seems to hinge on whether humans have genuine (libertarian) free will with respect to their beliefs. If all beliefs are involuntary, then whether someone believes in the existence of God is a deterministic function of the evidence with which he/she has been confronted and his/her epistemic criteria; so there is no such thing as culpable non-belief, because any human’s failure to believe would be God’s fault. I hold that at least some beliefs are voluntary; in particular, we have a legitimate say in what propositions we consider, what evidence we pursue, and what standards we use to evaluate it.
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July 2, 2009 at 6:58 am
How would you respond to this? “If disbelief is not morally wrong, and a necessary consequence of disbelief is alienation from God (i.e. damnation) because you can’t enter into a loving relationship with something you don’t believe in, then salvation is denied to some people for non-moral reasons.”
My first instinct is to say that this person has it backwards–nonbelief in the existence of God is a possible consequence of alienation from God, which is a necessary consequence of moral imperfection (of any kind and degree). However, I anticipate that the next argument would be that since reconciliation with God requires belief in his existence, the ultimate cause for being condemned is still always nonbelief. Thoughts?
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July 2, 2009 at 9:47 am
Disbelief, defined, is refusal or reluctance to believe. It is not merely unbelief (the state of not believing), it is an act of the will not to believe. Only by presupposing determinism can disbelief be morally benign. Hence, as you observe, it is a question of liberty.
How can disbelief not be morally wrong if we are free? Atheists argue there is insufficient evidence for the existence of God, but this is contradicted by Romans 1-3 (as Jason observes). Consequently, it isn’t insufficient evidence; it is man’s refusal to accept it.
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July 2, 2009 at 9:52 am
I think the questions is malformed. Alienation from God is a result of sin, not disbelief. No one will be condemned for non-moral reasons.
Unbelief is not the CAUSE of anyone’s condemnation. The cause of their condemnation are their acts of rebellion against God (sin). Furthermore, the rejoinder seems to presuppose that people do not believe for lack of evidence, when according to Scripture, their unbelief is rooted in their lack of will, despite the clear evidence of God’s existence. They know God exists, but suppress that knowledge so they can worship what they want to worship.
Jason
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July 2, 2009 at 11:13 am
Scalia: I have been using the more inclusive term “nonbelief”, which encompasses both atheists and agnostics, rather than “disbelief” or even “unbelief”. I agree with your assessment, but am trying to argue on philosophical grounds, rather than Biblical grounds, since an atheist obviously does not recognize the latter as authoritative.
Jason: Agreed, but the challenge is to frame the issue in non-theological language. That is why I have sought to shift the debate to the question of whether nonbelievers are even looking for the right kind of evidence.
The actual response that I got was that “If some people are inherently evil, and God has created them, then God must have made them without the ability to choose to be good.” I replied that God created the first humans innocent, but also gave them free will (so that they could love him), and unfortunately they chose to gain the knowledge of both good and evil. Every human since, with one obvious exception, has made the same choice. As a result, the default condition for all humans is alienation from God.
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July 2, 2009 at 11:48 am
But I think I acknowledged that when I agreed with you that the real question is liberty. Determinism is incoherent, so disbelief entails culpability.
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July 2, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Aletheist,
I see, and agree. While you and I know the real reason for atheism (or any form of idolatry for that matter) is primarily volitional in nature, not intellectual, that’s a hard pill to ask the non-theist to swallow. It’s also impossible to prove, because it would require us to know their heart. Tactically speaking, then, it is better to deal with the intellectual aspect of belief in God. I often ask atheists/agnostics who tell me there is no evidence for God, what kind of evidence they are willing to accept, and what kind of evidence they have heard for God’s existence. I often discover that the problem is not that they are looking for the wrong kind of evidence, but that they aren’t looking for evidence at all, or were looking for evidence, but found horribly reasoned arguments instead. As to the question of what evidence they are willing to accept, most atheists I have encountered never even considered the question before. If they have, they would give unreasonable answers such as, “If God appeared to me right now, I would believe in Him.”
Jason
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July 3, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Saved by faith. Damned by sin.
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July 4, 2009 at 11:47 am
I prefer: Saved by grace through faith in Christ. Faith per se does not save us; God does.
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July 4, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Is it possible for a nontheist to believe honestly (rather than willfully) that God does not exist? In other words, can there be nonculpable nonbelief? We all seem to agree that this would make no difference regarding the person’s salvation, because moral imperfection of any kind and degree is what causes alienation from God. My concern is once again tactical – I would prefer to be charitable by assuming that nontheists sincerely and rationally believe that the evidence is inadequate, but are simply mistaken about this.
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July 6, 2009 at 9:40 am
Biblically speaking, no. The passages heretofore referenced preclude that.
As I stated earlier, there is a difference between non-belief and disbelief. The mentally infirm and children are under the former, whereas the competent unregenerate are under the latter.
I agree with Jason that it is tactically unwise to accuse the unregenerate of disbelief. Every competent person who is lost is in rebellion against God. They’re won by the preaching of the cross from those who have a valid testimony.
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July 16, 2009 at 1:52 pm
What happens if you are not sure whether you believe or not? I don’t believe and I don’t disbelieve. I am not sure which way to go. I want to believe…I just don’t know. I don’t want to go to hell and I don’t want to be a sinner. And I also want to have a “life after death”. Am I damned because I am not sure if I believe?
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July 18, 2009 at 10:39 am
Sarah,
Good question. We have to distinguish between believers, unbelievers, and non-believers. Believers are those who think Christianity is true, and thus put their trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation. Unbelievers are those who think Christianity is false, and thus refuse to put their trust in Jesus. Non-believers are those who have not made a decision to accept or reject Christ. Non-believers come in two forms: ignorant, agnostic. Ignorant non-believers are those who have yet to make a decision regarding Christ because they have yet to even be presented with the message of Christ for consideration (I am using ignorance in a technical sense to mean “no knowledge,” not in a demeaning way). Agnostic non-believers are those who have yet to make a decision regarding Christ after they have been presented with the message of Christ. Based on your short description, I take you to be an agnostic non-believer. You have heard the message of Christ, and you want to believe the message of Christ, but for reasons that you have not disclosed to me, you simply are not sure that you can.
For you to finally come to a decision, you need to resolve whatever it is that is keeping you on the fence. I cannot help you much in the way of emotional obstacles (whether they be the fear of losing your personally and moral autonomy, fear of social/familial repercussions, etc.), but I can help you in the way of intellectual obstacles. There are good reasons to think Christianity is true, and thus good reasons to submit your life to Christ. If you have intellectual obstacles to the faith that you would like to share with me, I’d be happy to help you out by answering your questions, or pointing you in the direction of the answer.
What is your current state? In your words, are you damned because you are not sure whether you believe? As I wrote in the post, those who are damned to eternal separation from God are not damned because of their lack of faith. They are damned because of their consistent rejection of God’s authority in their life, as evidenced by their works. If we are to escape the consequences of our sin, we must be forgiven of our sin. And since Jesus is the only one who has provided the basis for such forgiveness, we must believe/trust in Him to escape judgment. Are you willing to admit that you have disobeyed God, and willing to submit your life to Him going forward? Do you recognize that you cannot do anything in yourself to merit God’s favor, but must trust in Jesus?
Jason
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July 29, 2009 at 10:49 am
I have arrived at a different conclusion according to my Biblical studies. The notion that anyone “automatically goes to hell” is based on a misunderstanding of a few passages in the English translation, and this view alienates Trinitarians from Jesus name baptism, and atheists or agnostics from the Christian faith in general.
We must ask ourselves, does Jesus cease from being a person (God incarnate)at the Great White Throne Judgment? According to Revelation 20, the book will be opened, but the books will not be the only criteria for judgment. All people will be judged according to their works, and the book of life will be opened. Then we read “whosoever was not found in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire.” The presence of a persons name in the book of life is written by Jesus alone.
He is the sovereign judge, and will judge all men in this judgment according to His divine will, and whether He judges them righteous at that moment in time.
There is no passage that says forgiveness cannot occur by God’s sovereign will manifested through the Son of Man at this judgment.
There are two judgments: The judgment of God on this earth that deems the sinner righteous. This occurs by entering into a covenant with God. Those who do so are part of the bride, and the bride escapes judgment altogether.
The second judgment is the Great White throne, and those who have followed Acts 2:38 (or the Law under the former covenant)will escape it.
The Bible says that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. This does not mean that the whole world is saved, but that through the suffering of shedding His blood He won the right before God to judge all men as individuals, as He sees fit by His Divine judgment.
Jesus said that the sins of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven “in this age, or in the age to come.” If it is impossible for Jesus to judge those who stand before Him as righteous on that great day, why make this comment about this one sin?
The problem is that Oneness people have taken the sovereign Judgment of God in Christ out of His hands, and generically judge people automatically to hell. Those who have relatives who have passed without Acts 2:38 are naturally repulsed by this assertion, and do not follow the truth.
There are a number of Passages that appear to contradict this view, based on the English translation. For instance, Jesus said that “who so ever does not believe on the Son is condemned.” The word “condemned” automatically brings hell up in our mind. However, this Greek word means “to judge,” and it is the same Greek word in the OT Septuagint in Psalms where it says that God will “judge the people with righteousness.” (Psalm 72:2) Obviously, this is not bad judgment. Jesus was merely saying, if you do not trust in Him, you will appear before the Great White Throne.
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August 4, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Noel,
Unless I am glossing over something, I don’t ever recall mentioning that people automatically go to hell. I said people go to hell because they are guilty of sin. They have committed moral crimes against God and His image-bearers, and they must be punished accordingly (unless they accept God’s pardon in Christ).
I’m not really sure what you are advocating. It sounds like you are saying that Christ can save people at the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ), even if they did not obey Him while alive on Earth. Is that so? Are you saying the Bible teaches that Jesus will choose to save some people at the GWTJ who were not saved prior to death?
Jason
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August 5, 2009 at 7:33 am
Bro Dulle,
In your article, you wrote:
“Jesus is not the cause of anyone’s condemnation—they are condemned already.” But in your response, you wrote:
“Unless I am glossing over something, I don’t ever recall mentioning that people automatically go to hell. I said people go to hell because they are guilty of sin.”
What I am advocating is that salvation, which means “deliverance” (at the Great White Throne, not in this life) is dependent upon Christ’s Judgment + the Word + the deeds of the people being judged. This is what Revelation 20 advocates. It is not God’s Word alone. And, the passage I quoted in Revelation implies that some in the Great White Throne judgment will be found in the book of Life. This is not the bride, therefore these are people who died guilty of sin, but are saved according to God’s Judgment through the Son of Man.
There is not one passage that takes away the sovereign Judgment of God from Jesus in the afterlife. And, even though people are not in hell right now, according to the Revelation passage it is not consistent to say that All will go to hell after that judgment. This distinction makes no difference in what I am advocating.
God judges people as individuals, not groups. For instance, you can have two devout Jews who have rejected Jesus. One of them might have grown up parents who were tolerant of the Christian religion, and although they taught Judaism to their child, they did not do so by mocking Christians. The other Jew might have witnessed the persecution of Jews by so-called Christians, perhaps their parents killed, or been “brainwashed” in hatred by their parents against Christians all of their life. Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment can judge these two men guilty of the same sin of unbelief differently, because their circumstances are different.
We, as human beings, generically use God’s Word to judge people in groups, similar to judging people as groups according to races. It is the same human flaw. And, as I brought up in my response, the word translated “condemned” in John can be used for judgment good or bad.
And, I am advocating that through the suffering of Christ on the cross, He won the right to judge people as individuals, not merely cast them off as groups according to sins they committed. He will take every circumstance of their lives into consideration.
Can you bring up one passage that says that one you die, it is over, and Jesus cannot by His divine wisdom release sin after death? Are we taking the place of God if we say that “Everyone who has not been baptized in Jesus name is going to hell.” I know that we cringe at the Catholic error of praying for the dead. Such a concept is a great deception. I am talking about judgment that comes through Jesus alone.
And, as I brought up, there is a passage that hints at the fact that sins can be released at the Great White Throne. Jesus said that one one can be forgiven of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in this age or the “age to come.” The wording of this passage leaves open the possibility that Jesus can forgive other sins at the Great White Throne. If Jews believed that once it is over, it is over, why would Christ make this statement?
Of course, Pastors are afraid of this doctrine, because it appears that it would give people a license to sin. I believe the words of Jesus can remedy this fear. He said that the door that leads to life is a small door, and FEW there be that find it.
The majority at the Great White Throne will be case into hell, but there will be a few that Jesus will look upon as doing the best they could with what they had, and will release them of sin at that time.
This is different that advocating the false doctrine that says that there are “Steps” to salvation, and if you die before completing these steps (belief, repentance, baptism, being filled with the Holy Spirit, living a holy life) you can still be saved and part of the Bride.
I am advocating that in order to be part of the Bride, receive your inheritance, and rule and reign with Christ, you must follow all of these steps. Those who have believed in Jesus and rejected Acts 2:38 however, can be saved at the Great White Throne, depending on Christ’s judgment. And not Christians alone, but anyone, if Jesus deems that they did the best they could with what they had.
I am advocating that He alone has the power or RIGHT to say “you are going to hell.”
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August 5, 2009 at 7:40 am
To clarify one statement. I wrote:
“I am advocating that in order to be part of the Bride, receive your inheritance, and rule and reign with Christ, you must follow all of these steps. Those who have believed in Jesus and rejected Acts 2:38 however, can be saved at the Great White Throne, depending on Christ’s judgment. And not Christians alone, but anyone, if Jesus deems that they did the best they could with what they had.”
I am not saying that it is a light thing to reject the truth. But Jesus knows what has been crammed into people’s heads against the truth. Of course, the majority who reject Acts 2:38 will go to hell. But again, we cannot as humans make such a judgment. It is Jesus alone.
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June 29, 2011 at 3:04 am
Noel Redden Says:
What you are suggesting Brother Noel is that eternal life issue, if you will, is not settled until Christ’s decides at the GWTJ. What the Bible teaches is that human beings die physically possessing eternal life already or not possessing eternal life. What the Bible teaches is that human beings die physically possessing the righteousness of God in Christ or not possessing His righteousness. The single most important issue in this life is WHAT THINK YE OF CHRIST. To believe is to be saved—-rescued from the final sting of Adam’s lineage—the second death!
Your convoluted speculations, where they are convoluted, do not help. I wish you would please stop it.
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June 29, 2011 at 9:25 am
No, I believe that the eternal life issue is settled at the New Birth of Water and Spirit. Anyone who has been born again can know that they are saved, and will attain the resurrection. Those who have eternal life through the New Birth will escape the Great White Throne Judgment.
The “Hell issue” however is another matter. I am suggesting that only the Son of Man alone will decide who goes to hell through the filter of that judgment. When we look at Scripture, the people at the Great White Throne will be judged according to two criteria: the “Books” and the “book of Life.” The “Books” are the Bible, but the “book of Life” is known to Chirst alone. We judge only according to the “books” but He also has knowledge of the “book of Life”–His own soverign judgment.
The problem is that you do not discern between the event of salvation and the event of the judgment of the world. It is also unfortunate that you attempt to stifle debate on this issue, since it is important, and many non believers judge Christianity wrongly because of a perceived judgmental attitude that paints God as an rulebook, instead of a God that knows everything that has occured throughout an entire lifetime.
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October 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Romans 8: 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
We are not under the law of sin and death. I know walk in the spirit, even if my body walks in the flesh. In other words, I can’t earn my way into heaven and I can’t screw it up either. Read on…
2 Corinthians 5 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
He is not imputing sin against us. There is no score card anymore like there was with the law. Sin does not send us to hell. Lack of belief does. Paul’s scripture can be no clearer. Rightly divide the word of truth and do not confuse instructions to Israel with instructions to the Body of Christ…
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March 20, 2014 at 8:26 pm
Let’s not forget
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
How does one get their name written in the book of life? It is through their belief in Christ.
When an unbeliever is condemned to hell, it is not because of his sin (though his punishment in the lake of fire will be determined by his works.) it is because of his unbelief in Christ as his personal Savior.
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October 31, 2014 at 4:57 am
The Revelation 20 passage quoted above is about the SECOND resurrection, the bride of Christ is glorified before this.
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April 3, 2016 at 8:24 pm
This article doesn’t point out that Christian philosophy/theology teaches that what Christ did was Plan B. Since Bible scholars and general Christian philosophers have concluded that Plan A was for Adam to live in the Garden of Eden forever.
Scholar/theologians call the partaking of the fruit a rebellion and as such the introduction of sin to mankind. Would there even be a need for salvation if there was no fall and no sin? The fall was necessary for salvation to be a reality.
Adam and Eve did not live in an incorruptible state in the Garden, as indicated by the fact that they were corrupted by an act that they chose. The garden would not have been intended as their eternal home in such a state. The Garden was set up for a fall through a free will choice.
You say that men are condemned already. Do you mean we are born as condemned individuals? Adam and Eve were not placed in a state of condemnation. They were given a choice. Were the rest of us humans created into a state of forced corruption, already condemned? If we were created out of nothing at our birth this would appear to be the case.
Doesn’t creation ex-nihilo, a standard orthodox theology imply that this is so? Unless we in someway exercised a choice in a pre-existent state before we were born to come here to earth it would then be an existence of suffering, sin and condemnation forced upon us.
If we are created out of nothing at birth then we are nothing but pawns. Eternal life and salvation would be nothing more than a game of some unknown determinism by the creator.
Babies and young children aren’t even capable of having free will or making choices. Are they not innocent? They can’t even talk. Are you saying they sin and are condemned to hell if they die without accepting Jesus?
Were we created or born into life with a greater chance of condemnation than of salvation? Wouldn’t this be the description of a tyrannical being? Wouldn’t these concepts be faulty theological conclusions of Bible scholars and religious philosophers if they make God such a tyrant?
The path of mortality through the Fall leads to both sin and subsequently salvation in Christ. Sin is an inevitable condition of living in this fallen state for all except Christ.
Jesus was foreordained from before the foundation of the world to overcome sin for those that accept him and act to repent of their sins. Then the consequences of sin are removed from the lives of such individuals. Children that die are saved by his grace completely.
Without the opposing forces and choices including sin there would be no freedom and therefore no growth. There would be no actual experience or freedom of will or possibility of choosing Christ. If spiritual growth is important then we must have choices. Isn’t the plan of God that we grow spiritually and choose to do so voluntarily through the gifts of His son and the Holy Ghost?
After the resurrection, a free gift from Christ, all bodies and souls will be incorruptible and eternally perfected as to their physical nature.
What the eternal state of each person and their body and soul might be will be determined by a perfect judge. To think that he would condemn us before we ever get started is one of the errant conclusions of apostate theologians from the dark ages to instigate fear. It is still used by modern religionists to sell their preaching services.
To think that we all go to one of two places as eternal pawns to either worship a God that needs no worship or hang with a devil he created is another errant conclusion by those same and subsequent theologians.
The comments here demonstrate the lack of understanding that Bible scholarship has produced. We see at work the wisdom of men and their philosophies from the apparent disagreement as to how salvation occurs. At least we all believe that Jesus has the primary role in carrying it out.
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May 4, 2016 at 11:42 pm
[…] Posted by Theosophical Ruminator under Uncategorized Leave a Comment Why is Jesus the only way to God/heaven? Alan Shlemon has answered that question in the space of a tweet: “There’s only one way to Heaven because there’s only one God that exists who’s made only one offer of forgiveness through His only one Son.” Well put. He unpacks the statement as well in a short article. See also: Why do people go to hell? For not believing on Jesus? […]
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May 5, 2016 at 7:36 am
A tweet of regurgitative nonsense from a proselyte of ancient misinterpretation and supernaturalism akin to old fashion mythology.
Adam and Eve’s choice for sin was really only a choice of metaphorical proportions, eating of the tree of knowledge was merely a metaphor for choosing to partake of their birthright design as all creatures of life on planet earth: sex with built-in pleasure mechanism to ensure procreation. If that choice would not have been made neither would we have “been made”, nor the bee, nor the flowers, nor fish. insect or bird nor the lowly mosquito, not the pathogens like the Zika Virus.
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May 5, 2016 at 7:47 am
And we know that the Son has come and has given us the knowledge of understanding not the belief but the knowledge, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is eternal life. The absence of which is what we call hell, hell is not a place you go, it is the absence of knowledge or the forfeiture of that knowledge because you love supernatural darkness.
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May 13, 2016 at 9:21 am
Jesus is a fucking lie. FUCKING LIE. Just jump off the building and meet fucking demon jesus in hell. The quran states that jesus is A FUCKING SIN.
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September 6, 2016 at 10:25 am
Please listen up Your smart butt remark and your damn hell attitude. WILL GET YOU INTRODUCED TO THE TUFFEST TWO INDIVIDUALS ON THE UNIVERSE. SAY HELLO TO GOD’s venenance and The serpent well known as your partner in crime Mr Satin himself. After God cases his vengence over your whole being. He then hands you over to Satin. Satin will be welcoming you my dearest, with open arms. And i promise you will be tbere for eternity. Byebye and good riddens from Heaven and Me, € . SUCKERS😈🔕🎤👹👿🍰⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵🔒🙈🙉🙊👀👂👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👹👇👏💔👅👹😙
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January 19, 2017 at 6:03 am
True, Thank you.
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January 19, 2017 at 10:22 am
Not true, thank you.
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February 17, 2017 at 11:06 am
It’s not the “sin” that sends you to Hell, but your lack of Belief in Christ Jesus!
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February 17, 2017 at 11:29 am
Hell is not a place you go to but a place where you live and the attitude that accompanies you, for hell like heaven is within you.
Therefore itt is neither sin nor lack of belief in Christ Jesus that puts you there and keeps you there but a lack of “knowledge” of Christ Jesus.
It’s not belief, people have tons of belief, it is knowledge they lack, not necessarily their fault at the start of their search but their fault when they allow others to teach them what others want you to believe about Jesus, most of which is the purest of nonsense; aka, caca del toro.
If you want to know Jesus, get acquainted.
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February 17, 2017 at 11:35 am
Eva jean reads too much science fiction.
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February 27, 2017 at 7:53 am
Obviously Jesus didn’t come to save all men only those who hear about him. Good thing we are white anglo saxon! Let the mentally challlenged, babies, PTSD, etc burn in HELL FOREVER!!!!! How Jesus loves them!!!!!!!!
(sarcasm off)
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February 27, 2017 at 12:14 pm
Andrew:
Jesus had the message and it was for humanity but Christianity misinterprets it to make it conform to Church Dogma: Our True Church, Our True God, Our True Messenger and all religions are the same. Jesus was not religious, belonged to no Church and favored no denomination after his encounter with the Canaanite woman….help me!” she said. 26 Jesus replied, “It is not right to take the children’s food … 27 “Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the Master’s table.”
Jesus, after that encounter, realized the error of treating the Canaanites and Samaritans with less favor than the Jews and he branched out to include all of humanity as well as the downtrodden, the sick, the disabled and the children…………The Church dod not branch out the same way for total inclusivity so your comment is not lost on me and followers of Jesus’s example for all humanity to understand……please don’t mix Jesus up with those who hijacked his message for their own vanity.
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February 28, 2017 at 8:38 am
Andrew, it would probably have been better to never turn your sarcasm on, because in doing so you merely constructed a straw man argument.
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January 7, 2023 at 3:46 am
The aids analogy is extremely unrelatable. It’s simple God created good and evil, this is his way, if the way to salvation was to hop on one leg while juggling, we’d have to do it there is no analogy to explain us accepting him. It makes no sense for ppl to just hear a message about Christ and if they simply don’t believe condemn them to hell, but god is god that’s his rule and standard. I think ppl fight so hard to make an explanation when there is none he is god and controller of the universe he can do as he pleases and ppl forget that…no different then when god harden pharaohs heart and said we shouldn’t question it because he is god which he is. He created sin and then said in order for ppl to be saved from it in the Old Testament a sacrifice of animals have to be made…huh? …then he sent his son to die for our sins so we didn’t have to sacrifice animals and be bound to the old law that he created😂 it makes no sense that Roman officials killed him due to them not believing in him as the son of man and used that as a plot to die for our sins makes no sense why wasn’t a regular sacrifice held the way the animals were sacrificed? Why does someone murdering you for their disbelief constitute as dying for mankind? It makes no sense to me, why does death the punishment for sin, why does anyone have to die for sins…God didn’t have to make it this way? It’s because god is god the alpha and omega he can do whatever he wants ppl don’t factor that in they try so hard to find some hard reason as to why when a large portion is due to god creating it that way for his own will.
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