The kalam cosmological argument (KCA) for God’s existence goes as follows:
(1) Anything that begins to exist requires a cause
(2) The universe began to exist
(3) Thus, the universe requires a cause
Additional reasoning leads us to conclude that the cause of the universe is God. Given that whatever caused space, time, and matter to begin to exist cannot itself be spatial, temporal, or material. Furthermore, whatever caused our orderly universe to come into being a finite time ago must be immensely powerful, intelligent, conscious, and hence personal. These are apt descriptions of a being theists have long identified as God.
Some seek to undermine this causal argument for God’s existence by denying the first premise. They point to quantum mechanics and virtual particles as evidence that there are exceptions to the causal principle.
In regards to quantum mechanics, an appeal is made to Heisenberg’s Indeterminacy Principle. This principle holds that one cannot accurately determine with precision both the position and momentum of an electron at the same time. If you measure its momentum, its position changes. If you measure its position, its momentum changes. Thus, it is impossible to accurately predict the future motion of an electron. While this is a physically accurate description of what we observe on the quantum level, some have improperly understood this to mean that the momentum of electrons is uncaused. This is an unjustified use of science. Heisenberg’s principle pertains to predictability (of the location and momentum of subatomic particles), not causality. “The mere fact that we can’t predict something doesn’t mean that something has no cause.”[1]
What about virtual particles? The quantum vacuum is a sea of fluctuating energy. Heisenberg’s Indeterminacy Principle allows for pairs of virtual particles to come into existence for a fleeting moment before being subsumed back into the vacuum. Detractors of the kalam argument point to these virtual particles as examples of entities that come into being without a cause. But this conclusion is unjustified given the evidence. While we may not be able to observe the cause, that does not mean there is no cause. Given our uniform experience of cause and effect, it is more likely to conclude that a cause exists that we have yet to detect than it is to conclude there is no cause. Indeed, the best explanation may be that virtual particles are caused by the quantum vacuum from which they originate.
For some, such explanations will not be sufficient. Until a cause for particle pair production can be observed or detected, they will maintain that it is more reasonable to conclude that such events are uncaused. This brings me to what I consider the ultimate rebuttal to scientific challenges to the first premise: science cannot, in principle, ever identify an uncaused effect, and thus it is never reasonable to conclude on the basis of science that something exists for which there is no cause. Let me explain.
Science contributes to our knowledge of reality by making observations about physical things. If they are able to directly or indirectly observe some X, then we have good grounds for adding X to our ontology. For example, when scientists detect a new particle such as the neutrino, we add neutrinos to our list of things that exist. While science can identify what exists by what it observes, science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe. If science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe, then the failure to observe a cause for particle pair production does not entail the absence of a cause.
Imagine for a moment that a scientist is barbequing some steaks in his backyard. While he is cooking, a piece of chicken suddenly appears on the grill. Strangely enough, it only appears for a brief moment before disappearing again. This happens multiple times. Quickly, the scientist grabs his instruments in hopes of detecting what is causing the chicken to appear on his grill. Despite all attempts to detect the cause, however, he finds nothing. Does this mean there is no cause? No, it just means he has failed to detect the presence of a cause. Perhaps the cause is too small or operates too quickly to be detected by his instruments. While he cannot rule out the possibility that the chicken’s appearance was uncaused, as a scientist he knows his failure to detect a cause is not proof that there is no cause. Absence of evidence for a causal entity is not evidence for the absence of a causal entity.
While the scientist can rightly claim he does not observe a cause for the chicken’s appearance on his grill, he cannot claim science has proven there is no cause. Likewise, while scientists do not detect a cause for the appearance of virtual particles in the vacuum, the absence of evidence for a cause is not itself evidence for the absence of a cause. It is beyond the scope of the scientific method to make conclusions about what does not exist. If there is such a thing as an uncaused entity, it would be impossible to identify it scientifically because science is based on observation and induction. It is impossible to observe the absence of something, and thus it is impossible to discover an uncaused entity by scientific methods. If uncaused entities exist, they must be identified philosophically, not empirically/scientifically.
[1]Norman Geisler and Frank Turek, I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2004), 87.
March 11, 2011 at 5:10 am
If uncaused things can only be identified philosphically, then caused things can only be identified philosophically. So you can’t appeal to our knowledge to argue that things have causes, but then reject knowledge that is unhelpful.
If our experience shows that some things appear to have causes but others do not, it might be that our perceptions are wrong and in fact all things have causes or no things have causes. But the first part of KLA requires our perception to be that all things have a cause, while carving out an exception for the thing you want to posit exists: “All things that are not unicorns have a cause” if you wish to argue that unicorns are the first cause.
BTW, are you aware that Dawkins’ book “The God Delusion” addresses all the arguments you make on this blog and more?
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March 11, 2011 at 11:14 am
Arthur,
While I would agree that philosophy can identify causes as well, you are misapplying my logic to say this would mean science cannot identify causes. Science can identify causes whenever those causes are empirically detectable. The reason I say only philosophy is capable of identifying an uncaused entity/effect is because science cannot empirically detect the absence of a thing. And lest there be an confusion, let me state this with precision: scientists can say that following an empirical investigation no cause was detected, but they cannot say that following an empirical investigation they have detected the absence of a cause. As I said in the post, science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe.
You suggested that “if our experience shows that some things appear to have causes but others do not, it might be that our perceptions are wrong and in fact all things have causes or no things have causes.” I don’t see how that follows. If this were truly the case, why not just conclude that some things have causes while others do not?
But I don’t think this is what our experience shows. Our experience with causation is uniform: effects have causes. In most cases, we know what the causes are. In some cases we do not know what the cause is, but we presume there is one. Why? Because we have a rational intuition that contingent beings require causes to come into being. That’s why no one ever fears that a horse will pop into existence in the midst of their house while they are at work. Indeed, science requires that one presuppose the universality of the law of causation. Without it, science is sunk. Scientists are always looking for the causes of the effects they observe in the natural world. The presupposition that there must be a cause for these effects has led to the discovery of a host of causes that were once unknown to us.
Tbc…
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March 11, 2011 at 11:14 am
Continued….
You wrote, “But the first part of KLA requires our perception to be that all things have a cause, while carving out an exception for the thing you want to posit exists.” I’m nearly certain you have made this charge before, and I answered it. The 1st premise of the KCA does not posit that everything requires a cause. It only posits that contingent beings (things which begin to exist) require a cause. So there is no exception being carved out for God. God, if He exists, is eternal and necessary, and thus uncaused by definition. So this is not some ad hoc exception like your unicorn example would be.
I have not read Dawkins’ book, but I have read several critiques of it and listened to several lectures of those who were critical of it. In that course, I have read/heard excerpts from the book in which he tries to answer some of these arguments, and frankly, he missed the boat by a mile. He either misconstrued the arguments, responded to tangents rather than the heart, and other silly responses. There’s a reason why even fellow atheists have expressed publically their embarrassment of his work in this area.
Jason
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March 12, 2011 at 7:51 am
Jason,
Dawkins’ book is an acclaimed multi-million selling bestseller, on point with what you post about. Why wouldn’t you want to read and respond to his writings directly? Shouldn’t you be concerned that the critiques and lectures you’ve heard are quite wrong, and are presenting only strawmen? I’d think you’d want to read both sides of an issue, rather than one side and that same side’s presentation and critique of the other side.
Arthur
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March 12, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Arthur,
I hope you will respond to my other points, rather than just about Dawkins.
As for Dawkins book, let me say a few more things. First, I cannot read every book published on the topic. There’s too many, and I don’t have the time. I am only able to read about 10 books per year, so I am rather picky about what I read (since I have 100s I would like to read). I try to read books that will further my knowledge on a variety of topics, rather than books written by critics. That’s not to say I don’t interact with the critics. I do. I spend a lot of time reading online sources.
Secondly, if you really want me to read Dawkins’ book, and you are willing to buy it for me, I’ll read it. You can purchase it from my wish list and it will be mailed directly to me. 🙂
Thirdly, I grant you that Dawkins’ books is something to be reckoned with–not because I think it presents good arguments per se, but because of its popularity. But there are many people more able than myself who have already done so. There have been books such as McGrath’s “Dawkins Delusion” dedicated to answering Dawkins, as well as a spate of other books and articles dedicated to debunking his arguments along with the other new atheists. There are so many responses that I have not even had a chance to read them all. But of those I have read and heard, they are not just summarizing Dawkins’ arguments, but quoting from his book and then responding. So I don’t have reason to believe the responders are constructing straw men.
Fourthly, if you have read Dawkins’ book, and you want to raise his objections on this blog, I will be happy to respond to them. I can do so on this string, or better yet, start a new blog post to deal with each objection.
Jason
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March 13, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Jason,
I read another post that perhaps makes the point better than my unicorn example:
1) Every sentient being has a cause.
2) God is a sentient being.
3) Therefore, God has a cause.
The point is that the KCA relies upon our observational knowledge for its first premise. But as with this alternate version, we know that everything has a cause (sentient or otherwise). We can word the premise to carve out an exception (uncaused beings, unicorns, etc) but there’s no legitimate reason to do so. In our experience, there are absolutely no exceptions in our observations – we simply see everything having a cause. That doesn’t mean that there cannot be uncaused beings or unicorns, but their existence cannot be taken as a given from our experience.
I understand that you cannot read everything available. Dawkins’ book isn’t free. But I would read the wikipedia entries on specified complexity and irreducible complexity if I were you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specified_complexity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
Are you aware, for example, that Darwinian evolution is able to produce irreducible complexity, so it wouldn’t pose a problem for evolution? And the wiki states, “Dembski’s critics note that specified complexity, as originally defined by Leslie Orgel, is precisely what Darwinian evolution is supposed to create.”
Explaining a point a tried to make earlier:
“Another criticism refers to the problem of ‘arbitrary but specific outcomes.’ For example, if a coin is tossed randomly 1000 times, the probability of any particular outcome occurring is roughly one in 10 to the 300th power. For any particular specific outcome of the coin-tossing process, the a priori probability that this pattern occurred is thus one in 10 to the 300th power, which is astronomically smaller than Dembski’s universal probability bound of one in 10 to the 150th power. Yet we know that the post hoc probability of its happening is exactly one, since we observed it happening. This is similar to the observation that it is unlikely that any given person will win a lottery, but, eventually, a lottery will have a winner; to argue that it is very unlikely that any one player would win is not the same as proving that there is the same chance that no one will win. Similarly, it has been argued that ‘a space of possibilities is merely being explored, and we, as pattern-seeking animals, are merely imposing patterns, and therefore targets, after the fact.'”
Arthur
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March 15, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Arthur,
I wanted to say something more about Dawkins’ arguments and other atheists arguments. In addition to the sources I already mentioned for my awareness of atheistic objections, I am also an avid listener of Christian-atheist debates. I have listened to most of the heavy-hitters debate this topic, and I’ve heard their responses to these arguments. I haven’t been impressed with the quality of their rebuttals. They either reply to straw men, engage in ad hominems, resort to a science-of-the-gaps, or think that merely posing an alternative explanation undermines warrant for believing God to be the best explanation.
Jason
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March 15, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Arthur,
This argument is valid, but not sound because premise 1 is false. It does not follow that just because every sentient being we are familiar with in the natural world has a cause, that every sentient being has a cause. If it is logically possible that a sentient being exists which transcends physical reality (and I know of no argument to demonstrate that it is logically impossible), that sentient being would have to be uncaused since it transcends time, and eternal beings are uncaused beings. So premise 1 fails because it is too broad.
This same problem plagues the way you have construed premise 1 of the kalam argument in the past: as “everything that exists has a cause.” Both premises are too broad, and more importantly, both ignore the key issue that determines whether something requires a cause: contingency vs. necessity. Causation is only required for contingent entities, not necessary entities. Necessary entities such as abstract objects (e.g. numbers, God)—if they exist—are uncaused by definition. All other attributes you might want to name–sentience, color, weight, geography, etc.—are superfluous to the question of causality.
I disagree that the KCA relies on observational knowledge for its first premise. Our experience supports it, but the deeper support comes from our metaphysical intuition that something only comes from something, caused by something else. We have a metaphysical intuition that potentiality only becomes actuality when something acts on the potentiality to make it an actuality. That intuition explains why, when the lights turn on when no one is home, we don’t just shrug our shoulders and say, “That was weird. The lights just turned themselves on without a cause.”
Why don’t you summarize the arguments from those entries for me, and we can go from there. I have enough stuff to read.
You say evolution can produce irreducible complexity, but you don’t explain how. And neither do the scientists. Oh sure, they offer conceptual stories about how it could happen, but they don’t spell out how those stories work in the actual world of biology (the chemical roadmap), the probability that the number of changes required could be achieved within the timeframe required, etc. Storytelling is not enough.
As for your last quote, this only concerns complexity, not specified complexity. It’s one thing to say any one string of coins is just as improbable as another, but it’s quite another to specify in advance that the string should be A,B,C,D….all the way to 10 to the 30th power, and that exact sequence come up. People who make such arguments confuse Shannon information with functional information. Shannon information is not a big deal and requires no explanation. Functional information does, however, because in addition to be complex/improbable, it is also specified to an independent pattern that has functional significance.
Jason
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March 17, 2011 at 7:16 am
[…] an earlier post I argued that the nature of science is such that it cannot demonstrate an entity/event to be […]
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April 9, 2011 at 8:10 pm
Good stuff Jason!!
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May 22, 2012 at 12:17 pm
[…] the fact that science could never, in principle, demonstrate that something is uncaused, what are we to make of this claim? Edward […]
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July 17, 2012 at 11:09 am
[…] He can’t appeal to scientific evidence because the methods of science make it impossible to identify uncaused entities, and there are no physics of non-being. He can’t appeal to logic either […]
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January 4, 2013 at 11:33 am
[…] In regards to quantum mechanics, an appeal is made to Heisenberg’s Indeterminacy Principle which holds that one cannot accurately determine with precision both the position and momentum of an electron simultaneously. If you measure its momentum, its position changes; if you measure its position, its momentum changes. This makes it impossible to accurately predict the future motion of an electron. While this is a physically accurate description of what we observe on the quantum level, some have improperly understood this to mean that the momentum of electrons is uncaused. This is an unjustified use of science. Heisenberg’s principle pertains to predictability (of the location and momentum of subatomic particles), not causality. “The mere fact that we can’t predict something doesn’t mean that something has no cause.”[1] […]
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June 10, 2013 at 10:08 pm
whoa, Jason
How can you possibly make these massive claims about a god? The KCA does not prove the existence of a god. No where in the KCA does it say the cause is a god. That’s reckless on your part.
Furthermore, you jump from an uncaused entity that created the universe all the way to an uncaused entity which is now some sort of personal entity.
That is extremely dishonest with regards to the elements of the KCA. It’s border-line fraudulent on your part. How can you possibly make that massive leap? It’s one thing to logically argue there must be an uncaused entity of some sort, but that same line of reasoning in no way shape or form extends to this notion of a personal god with a son who died for everyone’s sins and saved the world. That’s just laughable.
Maybe we should all step back and review what your real agenda is. It sounds like your one and only goal is to get people to agree to a first cause so you can then imply that everything else about the bible and the son of god is also true. In fact, this couldn’t be further from the truth.
You have a presupposition that god is real. You are extremely biased and your line of reasoning suffers greatly from that.
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November 6, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Youreyesareweird,
What massive claims have I made about God?
You say the KCA does not prove the existence of God. That depends on what you mean by “prove.” If you mean certainty, then no, but the same is true of most things we claim to know. Given the philosophical definition of “prove,” however, if the premises are true and the conclusion follows from them logically, then the conclusion has been proven.
If you mean to say that the KCA proper does not end with “and God exists,” then I would agree. The KCA only gives you a cause to the universe. But it’s philosophical reflection on what the cause would be that leads to God, just as I stated in the post.
As for getting to a personal entity, it’s not a leap. While I did not spell out my argument for the personal nature of the cause in this post (because it was not the purpose of the post to defend the KCA or argue for a personal cause), I have several arguments for the cause being personal.
First, if the cause of the universe must be timeless, spaceless, and immaterial, then we are limited to two possible entities: some sort of abstract object, or an unembodied mind. Why? Because only these things fit the criteria. An abstract object cannot be the cause of the universe because the defining feature of abstract objects is their causal inertness; i.e. they do not stand in causal relations to anything. That makes for a poor candidate to cause the universe! By default, then, the only option left is a mind. This comports with our experience in which human minds exert causal influence in the physical world. Further confirmation is found in attributes of this cause: it must be powerful to bring our universe into being, intelligent to order it, and possess volitional power to be able to cause the universe in time (I’ll explain more in a bit).
Secondly, when it comes to causes, there are only two types of causation possible: event causation (a what) and agent causation (a who – an agent simply decides). Consider event causation for a moment. Every event presumes a prior cause. It is always appropriate to ask What was the event that caused this event? because event causes are always linked together in a causal chain. The cause of the universe, however, cannot be an event because the beginning of the universe is the first event. By definition, there can be no event prior to the first event! The only other type of cause available is a personal agent. It’s like dominoes. You can explain why the last domino fell by appealing to the domino before it, and can explain why that domino fell by appealing to the domino before it. This can go on and on, but eventually you get to a domino for which there is no prior domino to explain why it fell. To explain why that first domino fell, you must appeal to a personal agent who knocked over the domino, beginning the causal chain. Agent causes do not require a prior cause or event to explain them because the nature of agents is that they start new causal chains. Agents simply decide and then act accordingly. A deciding will can move itself. Something else does not have to move it. Only an agent cause can explain the origin of physical reality.
Finally, whatever caused time to come into being cannot itself be temporal. It must be eternal. But an eternal cause, if it is impersonal, could not exist without its corresponding effect. So if the cause of the universe is an eternal, impersonal cause, the effect (the universe’s existence) must be eternal as well. But it isn’t. The universe began to exist a finite time ago, so the cause of the universe cannot be impersonal.
Let me illustrate. Consider a match. To light a match requires a sufficient cause. As soon as the sufficient cause is present (striking it against an abrasive surface), the effect of the match being lit immediately follows. There is no temporal gap between cause and effect. If the match was struck an eternity ago, it would also be lit an eternity ago. It would be impossible to strike the match an eternity ago, and yet the match to remain unlit until a finite time ago. Similarly, when we are dealing with the universe, the cause must be eternal, and yet the effect is temporal. The only way for a cause to be timeless [eternal], and the effect to have begun a finite time ago is for the cause to be a personal agent who chooses to create a new effect without any prior determining conditions. Only a personal agent has the power to “delay” the cause, so that its effect is temporal rather than eternal. It stands to reason, then, that the cause of the universe must be personal.
My real agenda? You don’t know me from Adam, so how can you know anything about my agenda? And no, I don’t argue that the KCA implies the truth of Christianity. The KCA only argues for theism writ large, not Christian theism. Other arguments are necessary to arrive at a particular version of theism. So you are attacking a straw man here.
I have a presupposition that God is real? This is a misconstrual of my position and my faith. I don’t just presuppose God’s existence, but argue for it using rational thought, and experience Him firsthand. Am I biased? Of course I am, just as you are. We’re all biased in one direction or another. The real question is not whether we have a bias, but whether our bias is appropriately informed. That’s where reason and evidence comes in.
Jason
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April 16, 2014 at 7:03 am
[…] Science Cannot Identify Uncaused Entities […]
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May 7, 2018 at 5:49 pm
1) ‘Science cannot identify uncaused entities.’
2) ‘science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe.’
Check on both but so what?
1) What does identify uncaused entities? Pure Reason? Making shit up?
2) Science can identify that which cannot exists by what it does observe/know.
http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2008/02/18/telekinesis-and-quantum-field-theory/
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June 20, 2018 at 3:48 pm
@Maximus
With respect to your question, in this thread, Jason does not explicate an argument for the existence of God, so your question is off-target. And, no, we don’t make stuff up.
With respect to your counter point 2, since you’ve “checked” on Jason’s points, it hangs irrelevantly in midair. If you’re trying to make the point that science has proved uncaused material events, you’re patently mistaken. Particle generation and movement have not been shown to be uncaused. There’s a world of difference between unknown or unexplained and uncaused.
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June 20, 2018 at 4:35 pm
While it is true that one does not know the cause, if there is a cause for particle generation that apparently is uncaused or unknown or unexplained; or, if science has arrived at the “point of witness” critical mass, of “spontaneous generation”.
It is worth noting that there’s a world of difference between unknown or unexplained and “caused” by an uncaused God too, so that argument applies to both for and against the unknown factor; in religion the unknown cause is called God; in science the unknown cause is called unknown cause.
Religion is cooked and done and calls its wisdom Absolute Certainty. Science is not done and remains open to discovery.
Religion is a closed system and operates with minds that are closed although they continuously attempt to argue in vain for the closed system, Absolute Certainty.
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June 21, 2018 at 8:12 am
Leo, no the same argument does not apply to theism. As I stated, Jason does not argue in favor of God’s existence in this thread. He is simply stating the truism, with which you apparently agree, that science cannot conclude that QM undermines the causal principle.
With respect to theism, Jason’s argument isn’t unknown or unexplained therefore God. One may validly question the logical inferences of the Kalam, but that’s not nearly in the same category as the patently fatuous conclusion that particle generation is uncaused merely because we can’t identify a cause.
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June 21, 2018 at 11:03 am
Science cannot identify a cause if a cause does not exist and that goes for the same presumed entity called God.
Science, nor can any discipline or reason, identify a causeless cause because identifying a causeless cause is impossible because a causeless cause cannot exist outside the imagination.
Therefore another explanation is needed to describe the hows and whys of an action (apparent spontaneous generation) that results from the impossibility of a causeless cause. While that may boggle the mind, the mind is justifiably boggled at the theist’s attempt to explain the uncaused cause, as God.
Anselm defined God as “that than which nothing greater can be thought”, and argued that this being must exist in the mind, even in the mind of the person who denies the existence of God.
But that is a false argument because the reasoning only supports the existence of the definition in the mind; it does not support the argument for the existence of the entity the definition describes.
On the other hand one may say that a painter’s vision exists in the mind of the painter and when the painter paints the vision in the mind on canvas, the vision exists in reality. But even that does not mean the vision exists in reality, only means that the painting is a representation of the painter’s mind vision and the painting, a mere manifestation describing the existence of the entity the painter’s envisages in the mind.
We might extrapolate this idea of existence of the vision in the mind of Jesus such that Jesus had a vision of God the Father in his mind and manifested that vision in his behaviour and message to the others in a way similar to that of the painter who paints his vision on canvas. But that does not prove the existence in reality the vision conceived in the mind.
The difference is more clearly understood by Leonard Da Vinci’s two paintings. The Mona Lisa and The Angel in Green with a Vielle. The former is the representation of an presumptive existing person as seen by the artist and the latter a representation of an imaginative mind vision of the artist. Both paintings exist in reality as paintings but only one painting is based on an existing entity.
What exists in the mind therefore does not necessarily exist in reality outside the mind simply because it exists in the mind.
To Jason’s statement:
“It is impossible to observe the absence of something, and thus it is impossible to discover an uncaused entity by scientific methods. If uncaused entities exist, they must be identified philosophically, not empirically/scientifically.”
Only the first sentence can be true because to identify uncaused entities is merely to describe or define uncaused entities because as the first sentence in Jason’s quote states: it is impossible to observe (identify) an uncaused entity or uncaused entities, assuming of course there is more than one “uncaused entity(s)”. Which begs the question, can there be more than one “uncaused entity”? Or would there only be a singularity? And can we know it?
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June 21, 2018 at 12:16 pm
Science cannot identify a cause if a cause does not exist…
Nobody said otherwise, but science cannot conclude there is not a cause, and that’s the point–the only point Jason is making in this thread. The maneuver by atheists to undermine the causal principle by appealing to QM thus fails.
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June 21, 2018 at 1:55 pm
What do you mean nobody said otherwise? The “otherwise” is the very dogma that makes up the theist theory-tale, God; and that, precludes unknown, unexplained, un-anything.
Nevertheless, I do agree with Jason that unknown, unexplained or un-anything does not preclude “uncaused”. And the reason that argument applies to theists and atheists alike is because theists with their declaratory “uncaused entity existence” called God precludes unknown, unexplained un-anything.
If one side cannot preclude “uncaused” because of the un’s, how can the other side, precluding the un’s, arrive at an “uncaused entity”, calling the uncaused entity God?
It seems to me that if atheists declare generation to be uncaused dismissing the un’s they employ the same fallacy as the theists, regardless if atheists name the uncaused entity or not.
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June 21, 2018 at 2:10 pm
I quoted you and then I write that nobody said otherwise—that science cannot identify a cause if a cause does not exist. Can’t you follow basic English??
Since Jason does not defend the existence of God in this thread, the rest of your comments are irrelevant. You have no basis for objecting to the theistic argument because you don’t even know what it is.
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June 21, 2018 at 3:23 pm
Take a long walk on a short pier imbecile. You are too belief-bound stupid to have a conversation so you have to blame it on Jason.
For someone like me, it’s very difficult to resort to obscenities, especially when there’s more obscenities in what you stand for than I could possibly generate in cursing you and all your worthless ancestors back to the year dot, you cowardly, scumbag. You self righteous piece of excrement. But hey I don’t want to get abusive here because that creates enemies; on the other hand, you’re already my enemy so, what the heck, you depraved lump of slime.
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June 21, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Long walk on a short pier? Are you in the second grade or thereabouts? You get twisted because you criticize something you know nothing about? I can’t help it if you can’t understand basic English. Next time, try Google Translate.
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June 21, 2018 at 3:52 pm
I finally reach your school level; it’s the only thing you understand.
Oh and a few more things you need to put in your pipe and smkoe:
Your character is flawed, your compassion nonexistent, your humanity is base, your religious insanity palpably inferred for your implied filth, your mind is diseased, you have the reprobate brain of a sub human and you are trapped in the parasitism you demonstrate, like a cuckoo: a largely grayish-brown (Cuculus canorus) parasite given to laying its eggs in the nests of other birds which hatch them and rear the offspring; AKA, a silly or slightly crackbrained person.
Google translate that imbecile.
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June 21, 2018 at 4:16 pm
I finally reach your school level…
No quite, bozo. Your writing skills are in the kindergarten arena.
You’re really unhinged, Leo. You’ve been that way for a very long time. You need medical attention. Bye.
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June 21, 2018 at 4:18 pm
Get a life instead of a belief system dolt.
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