The kalam cosmological argument (KCA) for God’s existence can be stated as follows:
(1) Anything that begins to exist requires a cause
(2) The universe began to exist
(3) Thus, the universe requires a cause
Additional logical inferences allow us to identify this cause as God. Whatever caused space, time, and matter to begin to exist cannot itself be spatial, temporal, or material. Furthermore, whatever caused our orderly, life-permitting universe to come into being a finite time ago must be immensely powerful, intelligent, conscious, and hence personal. These are apt descriptions of a being theists have long identified as God.
Both premises have been challenged on scientific grounds. Premise one is typically challenged on the basis of quantum mechanics, while premise two is challenged by new cosmological models that seek to restore an eternal universe. I am going to argue that neither premise of the argument can be undermined by scientific evidence, and thus the argument itself is impervious to scientific refutation. Only philosophical arguments are capable of undermining either premise of the argument.
Premise 1
Some seek to undermine this causal argument for God’s existence by denying the first premise. They point to quantum mechanics and virtual particles as evidence that there are exceptions to the causal principle.
In regards to quantum mechanics, an appeal is made to Heisenberg’s Indeterminacy Principle which holds that one cannot accurately determine with precision both the position and momentum of an electron simultaneously. If you measure its momentum, its position changes; if you measure its position, its momentum changes. This makes it impossible to accurately predict the future motion of an electron. While this is a physically accurate description of what we observe on the quantum level, some have improperly understood this to mean that the momentum of electrons is uncaused. This is an unjustified use of science. Heisenberg’s principle pertains to predictability (of the location and momentum of subatomic particles), not causality. “The mere fact that we can’t predict something doesn’t mean that something has no cause.”[1]
Many appeal to virtual particles as evidence of uncaused entities. Heisenberg’s Indeterminacy Principle allows for pairs of virtual particles to come into existence within the quantum vacuum for a fleeting moment before being subsumed back into the vacuum. It is said that these particles coming into being without a cause.
This conclusion is unjustified given the evidence. While we may not observe the cause, that does not mean there is no cause. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Given our uniform experience of cause and effect, it is more likely to conclude that a cause exists that we have yet to detect than it is to conclude there is no cause. Indeed, the best explanation may be that virtual particles are caused by the quantum vacuum from which they originate.
For some, such explanations will not be sufficient. Until a cause for particle pair production can be observed or detected, they will maintain that it is more reasonable to conclude that such events are uncaused. This brings me to what I consider the ultimate rebuttal to scientific challenges to the first premise: science cannot, in principle, ever identify an uncaused effect, and thus it is never reasonable to conclude on the basis of science that something exists for which there is no cause. Let me explain.
Science contributes to our knowledge of reality by making observations about physical things. If they are able to directly or indirectly observe some X, then we have good grounds for adding X to our ontology. For example, when scientists detect a new particle such as the neutrino, we add neutrinos to our list of things that exist. While science can identify what exists by what it observes, science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe. If science cannot identify what does not exist by what it fails to observe, then the failure to observe a cause for particle pair production does not entail the absence of a cause.
Imagine for a moment that a scientist is barbequing some steaks in his backyard. While he is cooking, a piece of chicken suddenly appears on the grill. Strangely enough, it only appears for a brief moment before disappearing again. This happens multiple times. Quickly, the scientist grabs his instruments in hopes of detecting what is causing the chicken to appear on his grill. Despite all attempts to detect the cause, however, he finds nothing. Does this mean there is no cause? No, it just means he has failed to detect the presence of a cause. Perhaps the cause is too small or operates too quickly to be detected by his instruments. While he cannot rule out the possibility that the chicken’s appearance was uncaused, as a scientist he knows his failure to detect a cause is not proof that there is no cause. Absence of evidence for a causal entity is not evidence for the absence of a causal entity.
While the scientist can rightly claim he does not observe a cause for the chicken’s appearance on his grill, he cannot claim science has proven there is no cause. Likewise, while scientists do not detect a cause for the appearance of virtual particles in the vacuum, the absence of evidence for a cause is not itself evidence for the absence of a cause. It is beyond the scope of the scientific method to make conclusions about what does not exist. If there is such a thing as an uncaused entity, it would be impossible to identify it scientifically because science is based on observation and induction. It is impossible to observe the absence of something, and thus it is impossible to discover an uncaused entity by scientific methods. Scientific discoveries can never inveigh against the causal premise. If uncaused entities exist, they must be identified philosophically, not empirically/scientifically.
Premise 2
Premise 2 contends that the universe began to exist. Those seeking to undermine the second premise often point to various cosmological models involving an eternal universe. Whatever one might make of the mathematical merits of these models, the nature of science renders it incapable of ever demonstrating the universe to be eternal, even if the universe is eternal. Science is an empirical discipline based on what can be observed and quantified. For science to prove that the universe is eternal, it would have to do so empirically. But this is impossible. An eternal past cannot be observed or quantified.
Consider a staircase. Suppose there exists a staircase that extends far into space beyond what we are able to observe. Some speculate that the staircase is infinite in size, while others contend that it is enormous in size, but still finite. How would one go about testing whether the staircase was infinite or just really big? Remember, we are talking about science, so we are limited to empirical methods of inquiry. One way to test the possibility is for a scientist to start walking the staircase, counting each step along the way: one, two, three, four…1000…1,000,000…1,000,000,000…. Could our scientist conclude after traversing the 1,000,000,000th step that since the staircase continues on beyond his observational horizon it must go on infinitely? No. For all he knows, it may end 100,000 steps ahead, and if he keeps walking/counting for one more week he would finally reach the end of the staircase. Because he wants to make a scientific—and hence, empirical—assessment of the staircase’s size, our dedicated scientist keeps walking and counting. Could he, one hundred years and 100 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion steps later, conclude that the staircase is infinite? No. For all he knows it could end one trillion steps from where he stands. So he traverses one trillion more steps, but there’s still no end in sight. Is he justified at this point in concluding that the staircase is infinite? No, not empirically. For all he knows, it could end one trillion steps from where he stands. Our scientists could go on counting for billions of years and traverse trillions upon trillions more steps, and he would always be in the same predicament: never able to know whether the staircase is truly infinite in size, or just a really really big (yet finite) staircase that he has yet to reach the top of.
The same is true of the universe. No matter how far back in time scientists are able to see by peering through a telescope, they can never know whether the universe continues on infinitely into the past, or just a little past their present observational horizon. Even if they could see 1 trillion years back in time, the empirical nature of science prohibits them from making any conclusions about what—if anything—is beyond that point. For all they know, the regress could keep going on forever, or it could terminate at 1.1 trillion years in the past.
Science can only speak to what it has observed, and since it is impossible to observe an infinite number of past moments, science is incapable of verifying that the universe has existed from eternity past. And if science is incapable of verifying that the universe is eternal, scientific objections against the second premise of the KCA are dead in the water. Only philosophy is equipped to answer questions about the existence of infinites. If it can be demonstrated philosophically that the infinite is incapable of being instantiated in reality, then it can be demonstrated that the universe is not past-eternal. While I think philosophy has demonstrated this quite clearly, even if I am mistaken and premise two is actually false, it could only be demonstrated to be so philosophically, not scientifically.
While scientific discoveries can support the premises of the KCA, they cannot inveigh against them.
[1]Norman Geisler and Frank Turek, I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2004), 87.
January 4, 2013 at 12:00 pm
A good summary of the arguments against scientifically disproving \the KCM. I also heard recently (from WLC) that the appearance of the particles from the vacuum doesn’t really help anyway, as the vacuum is not actually “nothing”. It is “something”. And I agree, that the vacuum itself is likely to be the cause of the particles since without the vacuum, the particles do not materialise!!
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January 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm
It automatically follows from your argument that God would have to have a cause as well EXCEPT it was conveniently stated “begins to exist” so naturally Theists will say that God did not “begin” to exist but always existed but how would they know that? They would not but only BELIEVE that; one can also say that the Universe always existed as well and merely transforms being in constant flux. It is also worth noting that Theists will use the convenient theory of the Evolution since the Big Bang Theory to support their argument that the Universe “began” to exist.
I submit that the Universe has always existed and the measurable remnants used to arrive at the Big Bang Theory are from planets and stars that have long exploded and the remnants are from the supernova of trillions and trillions of formerly existing stars and galaxies etc etc.
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January 4, 2013 at 2:06 pm
LeonardoTheGreater:
It would be logically deduced through a deductive argument.
I think it is worth pointing out that the atheist needs to provide an account of causality that cannot fall prey to any cosmological argument. While this might skirt the KCA it still leaves the atheist open to arguments from the likes of Thomas Aquinas.
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January 4, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Jason – regarding Craig’s argument about the non-existence of actual infinites, I was just wondering if you know if his view on this is a majority view or is it seen as a controversial argument? (of course truth isn’t decided by majority opinion but I was just interested in knowing).
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January 4, 2013 at 5:13 pm
Aquinas’ superfluity argument boomerangs on his five ways and other ways! Percy Bysshe Shelley maintains:” To suppose some existence beyond, or above them [ the descriptions- laws- of Nature, S.G.] is to invent a second and superfluous hypothesis to account for what already is accounted for.” Then for theists to claim, why, that’s category mistake would beg the question thereof.
The quantum fields themselves, whence comes universes in the Multiverse, are eternal in line with the law of conservation. Thus, the superfluity argument applies.
To postulate Him would then be Lamberth’s God of the explanatory gap, which with Henry Drummond’s God of the scientific gap, leaves Him unemployed!
WLC’s hotel and library are red herrings. He conflates finite with infinite arithmetic. He begs the question then of a starting point. Kyle Willilams notes that each day arrives on time forever.
The Dwight-Lamberth serial argument maintains that either God is a part of the series, in which case, He cannot be the Creator or He is outside it and thus cannot create.
The Dwight-Lamberth history/contingency argument is that God as God would not have contingency, He could not create or else., He has some contingent element, but that makes Him incoherent, affirming ignosticism.
[Hans] Reichenbach’s argument from Existence affirms that Existence is all, thus no transcendent being could possibly exist!
[Peter Adam] Angeles infinite regress argument notes, in line with most physicists’ views, that cause, event and time presuppose previous one.
More naturalist arguments now abound.
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January 5, 2013 at 12:23 am
Leonardo the Greater:
“I submit that the Universe has always existed and the measurable remnants used to arrive at the Big Bang Theory are from planets and stars that have long exploded and the remnants are from the supernova of trillions and trillions of formerly existing stars and galaxies etc etc.”
Out of scientific curiosity, where does this hypothesis come from? Do you have monographs that support your views? Any within the last twenty years? Do you have any peer-reviewed monographs of your own? Have you ever read a peer-reviewed technical monograph?
At this point, the Big Bang Theory is the survivor of the many hypotheses that have been put forth in the last sixty-five years. Denying it requires at least two things: a testable mathematical framework and that that framework be more plausible than that that comes with the Big Bang Theory. Are you in possession of such a mathematical framework or can you direct me to the appropriate monographs?
Within the last ten years it has been noted that infintely old systems cannot be sustained because of the increase in entropy. If our universe were infinitely old, not only would galaxies no longer exist, but stars or baryons for that matter: just a quarky darkness, I suppose. We just wouldn’t be here. Do you have a technically reasonable and mathematically sound refutation of this? The applied mathematics people at Cambridge and The Sorbonne would definitely be interested and so would many others mathematics departments. Scientific theories cannot be hung on nothing but imagination, nor can they be cursorly dismissed without cause.
Oh, as an aside, on what basis do you imagine yourself greater than Mr. DeCaprio?
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January 5, 2013 at 6:56 am
lol Don K rocks!
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January 5, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Don K is typical of Theists, pregnant with assumptions. What makes you believe that the Universe is a closed system? Like a bottle or a box? Black holes reverse entropy increase, you suggest is irreversible.
Mathematics is a science construct: “If this, then that”, like the Philosopher who says “if this premise then this conclusion follows” without allowing for anomalies. When were black holes first theorized? Hardly more than 200 years ago; thus, using Newton’s Laws in the late 1790s, John Michell of England and Pierre-Simon Laplace of France independently suggested the existence of an “invisible star.” Michell and Laplace calculated the mass and size – which is now called the “event horizon” – that an object needs in order to have an escape velocity greater than the speed of light. In 1915, Einstein’s theory of general relativity predicted the existence of black holes. In 1967 John Wheeler, an American theoretical physicist, applied the term “black hole” to these collapsed objects. By the way, the “event horizon” itself assumes coming out the same way it went in, like a one minute sand timer that you tip upside down but why does it have only an escape consequence supposition and not the Decrease Entropy Theory that would account for the cause of its own effect?
In quantum one thing can exist in two places at the same time why can not two things exist in the same place at the same time? Are Black Holes stable or do they roam around the Universe like a giant vacuum cleaner, reversing (decreasing) entropy?
Why would you suppose that Mr DeCaprio is the reference for the Greater, why not Mr. DaVinci; or, Mr. DaJesus. Or none of the above but merely a comparative without reference? The Great was, the Greater is and the Greatest is yet to be?
Theists might also want to reference these apropos words: How can ye believe, accept, understand or do what is right who seek approval one of another, and seek not the approval which [comes] from the one true Self Witness within? The Kingdom is within you.
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January 5, 2013 at 5:14 pm
WLK disagrees with Alvin Plantinga in that the former finds no infinite items in God’s mind, whilst the latter finds Him ontologically the greatest with infinite items. Now, Plantinga does not view his form of the ontological argument as formidable.
The [David Ramsay] Steele^ argument from timelessness notes that timeless God could neither think nor act nor be a person, in agreement with a growing number of theologians. Matt McCormick has a similar argument. And the argument from physical mind finds disembodied mind contrary to our conservation- background- of knowledge.
Steele “Atheism Explained: from Folly to Philosophy”
The Reichenbach and Angeles arguments find themselves In the latter’s ” The Problem of God: a Short Introduction,” but contains much argumentation.
Leonardo, La Place, as everyone states, states that he has no need for God as an explanation. That reflects Aquinas’ superfluity argument and the Flew-Lamberth the presumption of naturalism that natural causes and explanations themselves are the efficient, necessary, primary and sufficient cause; they are that sufficient reason!
And Lamberth’s the ignostic-Ockham finds either that He is incoherent or either He is a useless redundancy, despite Alister Earl McGrath.
Thus, no need exists for Him whatsoever as any sort of explanation!!
And no need exists for His grounding morality or giving us purposes. What a blasphemy to humanity to find us His ” things” to which He gives purposes!
As Inquiring Lynn, I maintain: “Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning to which neither God nor the future state can further validate.”
Thus, no need exists for Him whatsoever!
But we humanists do acknowledge that many people find such solace in the supernatural. Why, many theists would whine with WLC and- some atheists that without Him we are forlorn. John Haught finds those particular atheists being thorough-going, but no, they too whine for nothing.
Leonardo, so many good sites exist whence to get our arguments.
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January 5, 2013 at 8:39 pm
Leonardo:
My comments were only with respect to the sorts of questions that I would have asked when involved in day today laboratory pursuits(I purposefully did not involve myself with the Kalam Cosmological argument).
What you have done is to merely change the subject, which is what is the source of your scientific proclamations? You seem to want to tear apart the conclusions of thousands of scientists to put forth your own vision and, in the process, miss the point. There is not a competent scientist who does not believe that there are points in space where there are reversals in entropy. Black holes are just another case. The question is not what happens in individual instances, but what is the general estate of the universe as a whole. Those are very different things. The vast majority of scientists who are atheists would tell you that the entropy of the universe is increasing.
The egg timer analogy is nonsense. T(sub zero) does not imply t(minus one). If it were true, naturalists would not have suggested four different multiverse hypotheses. That these have been made by competantly trained scientists- all atheists or agnostics one would assume(deists or theists would have no reason to propose them). There is no evidence that the universe will ultimately contract. The most recent findings are that it is expanding at a greater rate than formerly imagined, and even before, its expansion rate was considered far too high for contraction except by a few fringe players among theoretical physicists.
The notion that mathematics cannot deal with anomolies is hopeless. It suggests that you are ignorant of modern mathematics. The evaluation of anomalies makes up a significant part of modern mathematical literature and is critical to scientific endeavor. You also seem to conflate theoretical mathematics, which indeed has some semblance to the logic of philosophers, with applied mathematics, which solves real world problems.
The point of any good intellectual discussion is not to dismiss ones opposites, but to challenge them to their best arguments. Those arguments will be undergirded with genuine information that can be examined and commented on or even challenged. If you don’t think that you have to be rigorous, then you really don’t have much to say.
That was the meaning of the DeCaprio comment. I did not for a moment imagine you were referencing him. What I was saying is that I could not take seriously that you meant DaVinci who did everything with intellectual rigor- art,mathematics, enginering, etc. Historically, the expression “the greater” is associated with the notion of the greatest. It is a term that one would not have given oneself, except in jest.
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January 5, 2013 at 10:09 pm
Somehow I think the fact that Theists need to argue for the existence of their creator god shows they have no surety their created god myth indeed exists.
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January 5, 2013 at 10:27 pm
“The vast majority of scientists…. would tell you that the entropy of the universe is increasing.” Based on what?
The entropy of the universe is increasing? Is it measurable? I think not. If it was measurable you would know the volume of the Universe as a closed system and of course you do not know that, so you speculate. For all the academia employed, it means nothing to common sense I’m afraid.
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January 6, 2013 at 11:16 pm
Leonardo:
Once more you are displaying your ignorance. The mass of the universe is calculable. More correctly the mass-energy of the universe is calculable and as such the entropy of the universe and the rate of change in entropy is measurable and there are scientists, astronomers and astrophysicists who measure and evaluate this data.
Whether the universe is open or closed is irrelevant if the universe is expanding and every measure that modern scientists have done have shown that it is expanding. An expanding universe is by definition one that is increasing in entropy(or disorder). It also follows that the measurement of volume has no meaning as it is in constant expansion.
The notion that entropy can only be measured in closed systems is also pointless. It is possible to measure the degree of dissociation in both open and closed systems. If you want to quibble about the meaning of words, you may, but that has nothing to do with hard realities.
Abraham Lincoln said that the problem with common sense is that it is so uncommon. Sadly, your posts seem to be proving the point. You need to get good college texts in physics and physical chemistry(a calculus course and a course in differential equations, if you have not done so already) and read about entropy, then do the same for astrophysics. The universe will not dance to your jig(nor mine). How it can be common sense to avoid learning about the subject you choose to opine upon defies me. Would you call it common sense to do carpentry without help from someone who knew what he was doing or, at least, getting a good book on it. Plumbing? Electrical work? Computer programming?
Your comments are full of passion but delinquent in understanding. I am not an academic, I worked in practical day-to-day bench chemistry, but I am not dismissive of academics a priori. Reading monographs, abstracts and various compendia was a necessary part of my work for the better part of ten years. I read, I challenged, agreed, disagreed. I could not have been dismissive of academia and functioned in my day-to-day work. The simple truth is that one does not become an expert on anything by assuming the sufficiency of ones own intellect. One becomes an expert by listening carefully to others without prejudgment and then drawing conclusions. This is the scientific process, perhaps, even more than experimenting.
At this point, I despair that we can go any further with this dialogue because you have chosen not to respond to the questions I have raised and have, instead, hung your arguments on hooks that are suspended from thin air. You need to challenge your prejudgments before you challenge others, not because I say so, but because it will make you a better participant in any intellectual milieu.
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January 6, 2013 at 11:36 pm
Jason:
My apologies for having brought this thread a little astray, but I thought a look at thought process for one individual might be constructive for all and lead to more constructive engagement with regard to the subject of the posting and while It has not seemed to work with my respondent, I hope that it has given others food for thought.
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January 7, 2013 at 7:44 am
That the Universe has always existed is as plausible a belief that God always existed; the difference being that we know the Universe exists but the God thing we know only as a human construct: a caricature concept like all the other gods of mythology.
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January 7, 2013 at 9:21 am
Frankly Don K:
I have no idea why you changed the subject from a discussion about the existence or non existence of god to the entropy of the Universe; I believe you wanted to show off your academia about things that you do not know and cannot know like Theologists who are experts in the unknowable but you seem convinced that by alluding to scientists, astronomers and astrophysicists so often that it gives some kind of credence to your musings. Until you or any scientists can measure the entropy decrease caused by black holes, you cannot convince me. Tell me in your scientific jargon which is the longer, forever, or never? I did carpentry and plumbing and amateur electrical but never opened a book on any of them; common sense will allow one to discern how to plunge a clogged toilet or hammer two pieces of wood together; I can hang a picture frame as straight by eyeballing as you can with a level but I didn’t learn from a book how to see straight. If you were a teacher you would be able to communicate is terms less denigratijng to your student than words like ignorance. I have always challenged my teachers and professors, not because of prejudgments but to force them to MAKE me understand WHEN I just couldn’t “get it” sensibly. I don’t mind if you sink my boat but please , just don’t sink it until you have built me or allowed me to build another; otherwise, I might drown in your overwhelming zeal to tell me I don’t have the capacity to offer questions. Common sense has questions that may never be answered; religion has answers that may never be questioned. Please don’t be a religionist.
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January 7, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Leonardo:
To refresh your memory, you began by making the statement that the universe has always existed. My point had been from the beginning that this was not a suitable reply to the Kalam cosmological argument, irrespective of whether the argument is right or wrong. I have no objection to you making other relevent objections. I have tried to point out to you that if the universe is eternal, then it must go through a series of contractions and expansions. This is so because it has been determine that our current universe can be traced back to a singularity. This implies that the universe, if it is eternal, must go through serial expansions and contractions. Further, in order for a universe to have this property, the entropy of that universe, as a whole, must be below a certain value so that it can contract. The entropy of our universe is too high. Moreover, what had been lost in the entropy argument, in the past, was that with each re-expansion there must be an increase in entropy. Eventually, after roughly two hundred of these expansions and contractions,the entropy is so high that not only stars and planets cannot exist, but atoms themselves. Since this number of expansions and contractions are finite, if the universe has always existed(is infinite with respect to time), then it follows that these two hundred expansions and contractions had to take place, long before now and we should not be here to have a discussion.
What is apalling is that you have contended against the importance of the scientific endeavor. It is as if you are saying that you have your opinions and to the extent that science goes along with you it is to be tolerated, to the extent that it doesn’t, is to be dismissed. It is an “I am the measure of all things” attitude. You can’t argue against the existence of God while insisting on being the god of your own little universe.
As Mark Twain said,”Everyone is ignorant about something.” What you took for insult was merely observational. You make it clear that you are not interested even in what other atheists have to say, if it does not confirm your opinions. If this is not what you mean, you have a whole lot of explaining to do.
As to the Kalam argument goes, it can be looked at as either a religious or a philosophical argument, but here it stated as a philosophical one and should be treated like one, firstmost. As Jason posits it, he is correct, in that we know that anything that begins to exist has a cause. To posit everything that exists has a cause presumes omniscience. For instance, we live in a universe that has but one dimension of time, but there is nothing preventing another universe from having more than one dimension of time. Such a universe would have no beginning and would contain objects or beings that have no beginning, just as three-dimensional objects have no beginning point (consider a globe). Note that this argument(mine) has no religious content, it is merely advanced for anyones consideration.
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January 7, 2013 at 1:25 pm
Don:
Thank you.
Your points are noted.
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January 7, 2013 at 4:05 pm
But we already know the cause- that natural one- the one that points to the processes of Nature to produce universes in this Multiverse from the quantum fields.
Please no God of the scientific or the explanatory gaps! Why should one add a superfluity that adds no knowledge or explanation to anything>
Naturalism fits the evidence, whilst supernaturalism depends on misinterpretations of the evidence and the arguments from personal incredulity and from ignorance.
Of course, something exists- Existence itself- the Multiverse. How could it possibly not? What scientific, not metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, evidence would lead anyone to think that nothingness is even possible, as Peter Adam Angeles^ notes that the ancient Greeks found nothingness vacuous.
Thus, Leibniz stands besides his gargantuan blunder, why something instead of nothing, as a reminder that the argument from personal incredulity is so worthless, and his answer the Divine Sufficient Cause, just another argument from ignorance.
Why, those two arguments underpin other theistic ones!
That’s why, I recommend Victor Stenger’s works and have two blogs with his name. Also Bede Rundle’s ” Why Is There Something Rather than Nothing” fructifies ones knowledge of why the question rings hollow.
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January 7, 2013 at 9:41 pm
Lol Skeptic G rocks!
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January 9, 2013 at 1:22 pm
“Anything that begins to exist requires a cause”
However it is demonstrable that primitive particles come into existence with no cause.
That then is a direct contradiction of the KCA.
Then the way to ignore the clear science disproving the KCA is to rephrase argument so that the existence of some sort of physical framework is itself a ’cause’.
Thanks for the stimulating blog.
Neil
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January 17, 2013 at 7:04 pm
I thought the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle states that the velocity and position of a subatomic particle don’t even EXIST until they are measured. What you have described in the OP is the Observer Effect, not the HUP.
Also with regard to this statement: “it is more likely to conclude that a cause exists that we have yet to detect than it is to conclude there is no cause” I just have to say that there are no hidden variables as has been shown by the Broglie-Bohm theory where Einstein was proven wrong…virtual particles popping in and out of existence really are non deterministic and uncaused.
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March 13, 2013 at 9:39 am
@Skeptic Griggsy
We certainly don’t “know” the cause. Quantum theory provides some tantalizing speculation, sure. But that’s all it is right now, and all it may ever be. Let’s not go prematurely hammering or moulding it into the gaps in our knowledge as we see fit. At any rate, even if it is how the universe (or hypothetical multiverse) came about, it would simply beg the question of the existence of those quantum mechanics, laws of physics, and space/time that, from my understanding, must have been in place for the production of the universe in such a way in the first place.
Can we brush off the notion of nothingness as unscientific to avoid questioning the original existence/cause of the above? I don’t think so. First of all, if “something” is an existential necessity, one may then ask “why *this* ‘something’ and not some other ‘something’?” And let’s not forget that the question of “why” has been a foundation of the human scientific endeavour. To quote J.W.Wartick (http://jwwartick.com/2011/04/30/kalam/):
“Like [physicist William] Wharton, I think the main reason causation is sometimes excluded from interpretations of QM is because of an avoidance of ‘metaphysical first causes’. Obviously, if this is the motivation for avoiding causation, it is not spurred by a commitment to science, but a commitment to avoiding the metaphysical implications of science.”
“Naturalism fits the evidence, whilst supernaturalism depends on misinterpretations of the evidence and the arguments from personal incredulity and from ignorance.”
Either one “fits” the evidence if you want it to (ie with the necessary assumptions), though in the case of naturalism I would say that even if it fits, it is insufficient.
Misinterpretations? Subjective, maybe, which is why there is understandable disagreement.
Are you not appealing to personal incredulity of nothingness, and ignorance of universal origins to settle on your own conclusion? (then again, I recall you claim factual knowledge in this regard…)
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March 24, 2013 at 1:47 pm
“We can see the subtle effects of gravitational pulls from literally everything in the universe.”
Compared to the previous best measurements, the universe is a little older and, surprisingly, is expanding a little more slowly than currently accepted standards.
Plank’s data also shows that ordinary matter – the stuff that makes up stars, galaxies, planets and everything visible – accounts for a relatively tiny 4.9 percent of the universe.
Dark matter, which does not interact with light but can be detected by its gravitational pull, comprises 26.8 percent of the universe, nearly one-fifth more than previous estimates.
The rest of the universe is dark energy, a mysterious and recently discovered force that defies gravity and is responsible for speeding up the universe’s rate of expansion. New results from Planck show dark energy accounting for 69 percent of the universe, slightly less than previously estimated.
The research is the fruit of Planck’s first 15 months on orbit. Additional information, including details of how the universe’s early light was polarized, are expected next year.
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June 7, 2013 at 3:33 am
I wonder why someone who hate islam and muslims
will use the Kalam Cosmological argument
without giving credit to these muslims
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June 7, 2013 at 11:04 am
Zaz,
First, who said anything about hating Muslims? That surely doesn’t apply to me.
As for credit, Muslim’s didn’t come up with the argument. The first person to articulate the argument was Christian philosopher, John Philoponus, in A.D. 529 in his book Against Proclus. Muslims absorbed Philopnus’ arguments beginning in the 7th century when they conquered Northern Africa. Al Ghazali expanded and perfected the argument in the 11th century. So Muslim philosophers definitely deserve some credit, but not all of it.
Jason
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October 23, 2013 at 11:20 am
[…] They have no idea how or why it happens (which is why some have even resorted to the absurd conclusion that these are uncaused events). Virtual particles coming into being from utter nothingness would […]
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April 16, 2014 at 7:03 am
[…] The kalam cosmological argument is impervious to scientific refutation […]
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February 15, 2015 at 9:33 am
Logical proof that everything that begins to exist must have a cause:
The opposite of ‘everything that begins to exist must have a cause’ is ‘some things that begin to exist do not have a cause’. This would mean that some things begin to exist randomly.
Using the this would mean that there must be an infinite number of possibilities before some things occur and the probability of each of these possibilities will be 1/∞. This would mean that the probability of anything happening is infinitesimal.
HOWEVER, infinitesimal is EQUAL to zero, as we can see from the following proof.
1/9 = 0.11111111111…..
9 x 1/9 = 9 x 0.11111111…..
1 = 0.9999999……..
1 – 0.999999999……… = 0.9999999…. – 0.999999999……
0. 00000…..1 = 0
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999…
How can something with zero probability of occurring actually occur. This is a logical contradiction. Thus, everything that begins to exist must have a cause.
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February 15, 2015 at 1:11 pm
Dear mumbledalphabet:
Is there proof that the Universe BEGAN to exist? If so what is that proof.
Is there proof that the Universe did not BEGIN to exist? If so what is that proof.
Is there proof that the Universe always existed? If so what is that proof
What is longer? Never or Forever?What is the proof for either?
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July 6, 2019 at 9:52 pm
@Skeptic Griggsy
You write:
From these comments, it appears you don’t have a sweet clue what Aquinas was arguing. If you did, you would have simply stated what this so-called “superfluous hypothesis” is and just what, exactly, the “category mistake” is. Hint: Aquinas makes no such errors in his arguments.
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July 6, 2019 at 9:54 pm
Skeptic Griggsy also writes:
This is simply a bare assertion. What is your argument for an eternal quantum field?
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July 6, 2019 at 9:59 pm
@John
You write:
You have misread the data. There is nothing in the literature proving that particles come into existence uncaused. Science cannot, in principle, tell us what does not exist by what it fails to observe. The fact that we cannot find the cause does not mean there isn’t one. Your statement is appallingly unscientific.
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