For the previous installment, see here.
Chapter 3
In 1995, Chinese scientists discovered even older Cambrian fossils near Chengjiang, China. At this site, even more Cambrian phyla and species were uncovered. This discovery also put to death the most popular form of the artifact hypothesis. One can no longer claim that the Pre-Cambrian lacks the Cambrian ancestors because the ancestors were too soft (no exoskeleton) or too small given the fact that the Chinese researchers discovered fossilized sponge embryos which are both microscopically tiny and entirely soft-bodied. They were preserved so beautifully that they were even able to see them in the midst of cell-division and identify the nucleus of the cells. Of course, even before this discovery, we knew that soft-bodied animals could be preserved in the fossil record since filament-shaped micro-organisms had already been discovered in the Precambrian, and many other soft-bodies animals, organs, and anatomical structures in both the Cambrian and Precambrian. According to Simon Conway-Morris, the Burgess Shale (Cambrian) contains 70K+ specimens, and 90% of them are either entirely soft-bodied or have a thin skeleton. The fossils discovered by the Chinese contained even more soft-body animals and preserved eyes, intestines, stomachs (and even the contents in the stomachs), mouths, and nerves. Furthermore, it would be impossible for some ancestors of the Cambrian phyla to function without their hard parts (such as an exoskeleton). They would have to have evolved together, and thus we would expect to find those ancestors in the Precambrian. If the Precambrian could preserve soft, tiny organisms, then why don’t we find the transitional forms leading up to the Cambrian phyla in the Precambrian?
Can the lack of transitional forms throughout the fossil record be explained by incomplete sampling – that we simply haven’t uncovered enough fossils to find the transitions yet? No. We have found an amazing number of fossils, but they always fit in the same place on Darwin’s tree of life: the tips of the nodes. None of the fossils can be placed deeper down the tree at the branching levels to connect the dots.
Chapter 4
Some try to deny that there even is a Cambrian explosion by pointing to the Ediacaran fossils in the Precambrian. It’s claimed that these fossils represent the ancestors to the Cambrian phyla. The Ediacaran fossils have been found most famously in Australia, but also in England, Newfoundland, Russia, and Africa – indicative of a global distribution of these animals and fauna.
The Ediacaran fossils appear in the fossil record between 570-565 MYA, and disappear 543 MYA, 13 MY before the start of the Cambrian. Sponges are the oldest of this group. Other types of fossils include trace fossils (fossilized tracks or feces), primitive mollusks, Ediacaran animals, and Ediacaran fauna. Apart from the sponges and mollusks, the animals in the Precambrian bear no resemblance to the Cambrian phyla. Some of them may have been land creatures, and thus cannot be related to the Cambrian phyla (which are all sea creatures). We aren’t even sure if some of them should be classified as animals. At best, the Ediacaran fossils could be related to four of the 20 Cambrian phyla (this includes trace fossils). What about the other 16 phyla? Where are their ancestors?
Rather than solving the Cambrian explosion, the Ediacaran fossils deepen the mystery. First, the Ediacaran represents a mini explosion of its own. For 3 billion years we only have evidence of single-celled life. Then, in a geological blink (15 MY) multi-cellular, complex organisms appear on the scene with no apparent ancestors. How did that happen?
Second, from the start of the Ediacaran to the end of the Cambrian is only 40 MY. If the Ediacaran fossils are ancestral to the Cambrian fossils, how do we explain the radical degree of change that would be required to make that transition in less than 40 MY? It may seem like a long time, but given population genetics, it is not enough time to create such large-scale innovations.
Chapter 5
Although there is no evidence of Cambrian ancestors in the fossil record, that hasn’t stopped scientists from trying to identify them. Using the notion of a molecular clock and comparing molecules from different animals, they have determined when the last common ancestor to the Cambrian phyla originated.
The problem with this approach to finding the Cambrian ancestors is multiple. First, this approach cannot be used to establish the existence of ancestral forms to the Cambrian phyla because it merely assumes that there were ancestral forms to the Cambrian phyla to begin with. All these studies show us is how old the last common ancestor would be if there was a last common ancestor. So used as proof for ancestral forms, it is circular argument. For all we know, based on the hard data (the fossil record), there are no ancestral forms to the Cambrian phyla.
Secondly, it assumes the truth of universal common descent.
Thirdly, scientists come up with a wide variety of dates for the date for the last common ancestor depending on which molecules they study. Dates can differ by hundreds of millions of years. This leads to the next problem: subjectivity.
Which molecules scientists choose to base their date on is very subjective. Some molecules, such as histone, do not differ much from organism to organism, so scientists ignore it because it does not yield a date in the Precambrian that fits the theory of Darwinian evolution. Other molecules differ so much that a molecular clock analysis dates the last common ancestor to a time before the Earth existed. Given the fact that different molecules yield different dates, how do scientists determine which molecules give us an accurate picture? It appears that the molecules selected for study are cherry picked to give results consistent with Darwinian evolutionary expectations. In essence, the experiments are being used to support the presuppositions of the scientists conducting them.
Fifthly, these experiments assume that the mutation rate is constant. We know, however, that the mutation rate is different for different animals, and even different for different molecules within animals. So the mutation rate used to calculate the last common ancestor is subjective as well.
December 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm
It’s difficult to argue with someone who believes in ghosts and promotes the paranormal. It’s bizarre, no logic, no reason, just imagination.
God the Supernatural hidden creator invisible to humankind except for a few thousands years ago when he suddenly appeared to the rightoues among men, was visible, he talked to his creature only through the clergy, advised them about war, who to kill, how to kill, foods to eat, sex and rituals for man to perform, created all the creatures in the cambrian era so that Noah would have lots of animals and birds and bees and snakes and insects and viruses and bacteria, alligators and elephants, everything that was ever created, dinosaurs? No that’s a science conspiracy. Part One said where did the cambrian life come from and then in Part two after admitting there are many fossil records before the cambrian but its the gap between the two periods; they are concerned about and cannot “imagine” why there are no ancestors but have no problem imagining miracles by the suspension of gravity but well, where did the mircles come from; where are the ancestors? Where idid the ancestors go? Moses, Enoch, Mary the Mother, Jesus?
It seems to me Creationists should be able to prove their supernatural theories instead of trying to debunk the scientific study and research of the Origin of life that seeks knowledge. But they do have the shroud of turin and some presumed ancient box container that says I am Jesus Brother. The James Ossuary is a 1st century chalk box that was used for containing the bones of the dead. The Aramaic inscription: Ya’akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua (English translation: “James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus”) is cut into one side of the box. The inscription is considered significant because, if genuine, it might provide archeological evidence of Jesus of Nazareth but right now there is no archeological evidence known.
The Bottom line is that Scientists admit they do not know how the origin of life began if it ever did begin they speculate on theories and try to replicate the theories. Believers don’t have to prove anything , not because they cannot although they cannot, but because they don’t need proof for anything in the imagination because it’s where the angels and demons and gods and ghosts live.
The Creationist, the Drug of Absolute Certainty, lives wasted on nonexistent ghosts because “nothing” turns them on.
I mean Creationists have had a million years to prove any miracle happened, any ascension happened, any dead man was raised from the dead, any hint of THE SUPERNATURAL other than the paranormal, the exorcist, the Ghost Busters and Cecile Demille’s ten comandments out of Hollywood based on the fantasy stories in the Bible.
Just because science admits they do not know how the origin of life began, if it actually did begin, does not mean that the Creationists do; otherwise, creationists would show the kind of proof they demand science produce.
Talking to believers is like trying to talk to the mentally ill in the asylum, it’s like trying to convince the catatonic to take his next step.
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December 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Wow, “mentally ill”? And atheist communist Russa never killed anyone? I have never read so much unsubstantiated broad brushed rhetoric in one post.
Sounds like someone has a burr in their saddle. Such love for humanity 🙂
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December 4, 2014 at 9:08 pm
Facts and logic. Matter to an atheist is eternal and has always been. This is a required assumption because matter can’t be made from nothing. So either matter is eternal, and impossible to ever explain, or God is eternal and is impossible to explain. Sounds like each theory is backed into the same corner. All we are doing as creationists is asking for explanations of evolutionary conclusions; it’s called intellectual accountability, and should be welcomed by both sides.
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December 5, 2014 at 3:17 am
dgjesdal:
Okay, so let’s have some intellectual accountability for the supernatural; at least common sense atheists have the cosmos to support matter’s existence and life as we know it and live it. The believer; well, they have miracles, magic, myths, mayhem and ‘magination; science fiction writers have as much but at least they admit their fabrications; bible believers will not even admit the miracle of Moses’ magic although it is christclear as glass in Exodus 7:9. Ahhh, but throw out common sense; that’s too easy an explanation.
Communist atheism? HUH?
A succinct commentary from Sam Harris:
“There’s this notion that atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in the 20th century. It is amazing how many people think the crimes of Hitler and Pol Pot and Mao were because of atheism.This a total misconstrual of those societies and of the psychological and sociological forces that allowed people to follow their dear leader over the brink.The problem with fascism and communism was not that they were too critical of religion, the problem is they’re too much LIKE religion.
Rick Warren suggested that North Korea was a model atheistic society. The truth is North Korea is organized exactly like faith based cults. Centered on the worship of Kim Jong Il. North Koreans apparently believe that the shipments of food aid that they receive from us to keep them from starving to death are actually devotional offerings to Kim Jong Il. Is too little faith the problem with North Korea? Is too much skeptical inquiry what is wrong here?
Auschwitz, the Gulag and the Killing Fields are not the product of atheism, they are the product of other dogmas run amuck: Nationalism, political dogma. Hitler did not engineer a genocide in Europe because of atheism, in fact Hitler doesn’t even appear to have been an atheist, he regularly invoked Jesus in his speeches. But that’s beside the point. He did it on the basis of other beliefs: dogmas about Jews and the purity of German blood.
Atheism is an offshoot of Theism. Atheism is not a stand alone ideology; it has only come about because of supernatural superstitious societies. The simplicity of Atheism is that it does not believe in supernatural gods; in fact, all people born are born as atheists; that is, simply put, without a belief in supernatural gods; then after birth, along comes religion and drills into the children ludicrous imaginings based on ancient ideas of “BE-ING”, before they invented the wheel or controlled fire when a typical sacrifice was your child for a bumper crop or relief from the famine and drought or simply a pre-emptive strike sacrificing virgins to ensure appeasment of the supernatural Gods to stave off his wrath. It’s called Mythology and that is the accountability of believers we are expected to accept.
“It’s important to focus on the specific consequences of specific ideas. I want to make it very clear that I am not holding religion responsible for every bad thing that a religious person has done in history to be balanced against all the bad things that atheists have done. I am only holding religion responsible for what people do and will continue to do explicitly for religious reasons.” Sam Harris.
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December 5, 2014 at 4:17 am
dgjesdal: You need a lesson from the bible about reality and accountability.
Don’t you understand that the mission of Jesus was to set the people free from the tyranny of religious beliefs, superstition and the supernatural? Because he loved humanity. Of course Atheists love humanity, that’s why we are adamant to open minds. The same mission that Jesus had.
What do you think Jesus was talking about when he debunked the supernatural and superstitious religious beliefs? That the congegation wanted to kill him right there and then in the Synagogue? He was talking about the wool that was constantly being pulled over the eyes of the masses about the nonsense of the supernatural that the Clergy brainwashed the people with since the days of Moses. Here read it again for the first time.
To Set the Burdened(by religious nonsense) Free
Luke 4 Jesus returned to Galilee powerful in the Spirit. News that he was back spread through the countryside. He taught in their meeting places to everyone’s acclaim and pleasure.
He came to Nazareth where he had been reared. As was the custom on the Sabbath, he went to the meeting place. When he stood up to read, he was handed the scroll of the prophet Isaiah. Unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written,
God’s Spirit is on me;
he’s chosen me to preach the Message of good news to the poor,
Sent me to announce pardon to prisoners and
recovery of sight to the blind,
To set the burdened and battered free,
to announce, “This is God’s year to act!”
He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the assistant, and sat down. Every eye in the place was on him, intent. Then he started in, “You’ve just heard Scripture make history. It came true just now in this place.”
All who were there, watching and listening, were surprised at how well he spoke. But they also said, “Isn’t this Joseph’s son, the one we’ve known since he was a youngster?”
He continued, “I suppose you’re going to quote the proverb, ‘Doctor, go heal yourself. Do here in your hometown what we heard you did in Capernaum.’ Well, let me tell you something: No prophet is ever welcomed in his hometown. Isn’t it a fact that there were many widows in Israel at the time of Elijah during that three and a half years of drought when famine devastated the land, but the only widow to whom Elijah was sent was in Sarepta in Sidon?(with whom religious decrees forbade association) And there were many lepers in Israel at the time of the prophet Elisha but the only one cleansed was Naaman the Syrian.”(with whom religious decrees forbade association)
That set everyone in the meeting place seething with anger. They threw him out, banishing him from the village, then took him to a mountain cliff at the edge of the village to throw him to his doom, but he gave them the slip and was on his way.
This condemnation of religion by Jesus is further revealed in Jesus’ 8-fold indictment of religion and the clergy; AKA, the “Woe To You” Indictment in Matthew 23. Read it again for the first time.
And what did he say to his brothers in John 7? Read it again for the first time.
1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. 7 “The (religious) world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.”
Supernatural nonsense took priority over the weightier things of the Law, Mercy, Justice and Love.
And it still persists widely despite the message two thousand years ago.
“In name only do they honor me but their hearts are far from me.”
Matt15: After that, Pharisees and religion scholars came to Jesus criticizing, “Why do your disciples play fast and loose with the rules?”
But Jesus put it right back on them. “Why do you use your rules to play fast and loose with God’s commands? God clearly says, ‘Respect your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone denouncing father or mother should be killed.’ But you weasel around that by saying, ‘Whoever wants to, can say to father and mother, What I owed to you I’ve given to God.’ That can hardly be called respecting a parent. You cancel God’s command by your rules. Frauds! Isaiah’s prophecy of you hit the bull’s-eye:
These people make a big show of saying the right thing,
but their heart isn’t in it.
They act like they’re worshiping me,
but they don’t mean it.
They just use me as a cover
for teaching whatever suits their fancy.”
He then called the crowd together and said, “Listen, and take this to heart. It’s not what you swallow that pollutes your life, but what you vomit up.”
Later his disciples came and told him, “Did you know how upset the Pharisees were when they heard what you said?”
Jesus shrugged it off. “Every tree that wasn’t planted by my Father in heaven will be pulled up by its roots. Forget them. They are blind men leading blind men. When a blind man leads a blind man, they both end up in the ditch.”
Peter said, “I don’t get it. Put it in plain language.”
Jesus replied, “You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don’t you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It’s from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That’s what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that’s neither here nor there.”
It is true that Jesus had a burr in his saddle for the love of humanity; he wanted to save humanity from religious insanity. But religion uses Jesus as a cover to teach whatever they want, whatever their agenda and Money is never far from the lips to the heart of the preachers.
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December 5, 2014 at 4:54 am
TO: dgjesdal and all…
I’ve tried to ‘debate’ with sonofman and the replies from him just get longer and louder. He probably argues with himself to the point of complete chaos and isolation. I probably could not even find common ground with him about the difference between up and down and he never wants to remove his being from “off” the earth so intelligent debate about that condition being irrelevant in outer space…is incomprehensible to him (be that example literal or hint to the spiritual).
It is not that anyone here is trying to convert (or least I find that dangerous–to take that ‘credit/poster” but that we are trying to find common ground and to accentuate our curiosity to understand the situation we find ourselves in: Life Matter, Universe ect. Does this lead to God? Sure can. But even God does not force our belief in Him (if He controlled our mind and heart…then that would not be love…but rape! Love must allow the free will to reject!!). But sonofman does not get this…he just argues and goes off on very obtuse contradictory tangents (if such is even possible in his reality or spiritual
considerations). Frankly, I rarely read his posts anymore…! .
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December 5, 2014 at 6:15 am
get1949:
Your are so lolable. If it wasn’t for nonsense you would have no sense at all. There is no common ground between nonsense and common sense so how could you possible try to find common ground. What you say about me is no less than what your ancestors said about Jesus.
You harbor your ship within the paranormal and think yourself virtuous by the supernatural imaginings of the ancients. And even though Jesus tried to revive your mind back to reality away from the misinformation you have been indoctrinated by and now thrive on, it has never been successful. Religion has hijacked Jesus and his message into religion’s fold as supernatural folly and disregarded everything Jesus taught about what religion has done for which Jesus condemned religion in Matt 23.
Saying “Frankly, I rarely read his posts anymore…! .” is the same as saying that you rarely read Jesus message anymore because I am only telling you Jesus message. Jesus did not make one dent in the supernatural armor you seal yourself with while you perpetuate the hoaxes as a proselyte of religion.
It is your loss; the blind leads the blind and both remain in the ditch; Jesus said: “…. No one comes to the Father except through Me” AND “No man can come to me, except the Father draw him….”
Reject my words and you reject Jesus’ words, simple as that.
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December 5, 2014 at 8:55 am
This is actually getting funny. sonofman, you said, “…in fact Hitler doesn’t even appear to have been an atheist, he regularly invoked Jesus in his speeches”. Hitler did exactly what you are doing, hijacking the name of Jesus and superimposing your beliefs on to him. It is interesting that you fail to see your own inconsistencies, that you so derogitorally place on others. The life and intent of Jesus is clear – yet your copy and paste ideology of Christ is so befitting of you, or as is called, grab bag theology. Great minds, scientists, mathematicians, Philosophers and agnostics have at least understood historically and accurately who Jesus was and stood for. You, have your own agenda with a burr in your saddle, that I believe someone has done you wrong, and for that I am sincerely sorry.
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December 5, 2014 at 10:41 am
Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out. (Proverbs 20:5)
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December 5, 2014 at 11:51 am
dgjestal:
Sorry but your take on me is as wrong as your take on the supernatural in general and Jesus in particular. I am telling you in my own words and pertinent quotes what I am about and you just have to twist it because it is against what you have been taught. Well Jesus faced the same dilemma didn’t he.
You need to study Jesus without a supernatural slant and see the common sense man for what he was, an atheist who espoused no religion, hated the religion of a debased powerbase society, condemned the clergy calling them poisonous snakes of mankind. But because he garnered so many followers with his common sense problem solving the Pharisee Paul started a religion based on the following of Jesus the common sense guy but followed the supernatural paths of his Pharisaical upbringing so the masses remained blind still being taught that a dead man was raised from the dead and then ascended into the heavens suspending the laws of Gravity.
You are still in thrall by that part of the reptile brain that cannot differentiate between lies repeated often enough by religion that become the truth and the truth itself, in the human reptile brain by ritualism: chanting, henpecking genuflecting, finger beading, trances, seances, a little drug induced psychosis here and there, exorcisms, signing, wearing religious clothes, symbols, prayer and church going every day or week. You should read up on ritualism and the reptile brain that cannot evolve into the rational mind, the mainstay of religious insanity that still hijacks the children of the world with little stories about the supernatural fairies and angels and demons that only children can believe in but are thenceforth trapped from escape because of the child abuse indoctrination with the Drug of Absolute Certainty.
Here in the civilized world, it’s still perfectly legal for us to indoctrinate our children with the most hateful and divisive absurdities it’s possible to imagine. And imagined them we have.
Creating in them not young, vibrant, healthy, inquiring minds but rather stunted little freakish minds that are no use to anyone but a bloodsucking preacher.
We not only allow this abuse, we actively encourage it; we throw public money at it.
The burrs in the saddle of Jesus et al is to message against the madness of religion that has kept people in thrall for millennia and it is very difficult to convince people who have wasted their lives following the clergy and supporting them financially so much so that Churches are among the wealthiest corporations in the world, difficult if not impossible to admit they have been duped by the irrationality of the supernatural and the pschological application of ritualism to impose their dogma on the next generation of bigots.
Jesus tried to stop it but as I said his life was hijacked using the Christmas Season to further perpetuate their dogma by advertising the real Story of Christimas as a blatant lie to deceive the world that it was the birth of Jesus! OMG, even though the Christmas season was celebrated long before Jesus was born yet lies are a timid thing they call white to coat it with purity. And yet even though the clergy know that the Old Testament reveals the Christmas story before Jesus was born, Book chapter and verses they nevertheless will not talk about it and hope their congregation never finds it on their own and sadly enough, that’ll work, because sheep and water and believers follow the easiest path on the way to hell that others lay for them. Hell by the way is your lack of knowledgr not some place in the eastern sky or out in the cosmos.
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December 5, 2014 at 11:55 am
Frank:
I’ll take your scriptural quote as a compliment. 🙂
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December 5, 2014 at 1:07 pm
In the spirit of the season:
When you are wrong be quick to apologize;
When you are right be quick to forgive.
May Christmas 2014 prove an enlightment to all of you with a mind, open enough, to allow revelation in. Have a Miraculous Christmas; and, a Happening New Year going forward; know this: that the spirit of the Father is “within you”; you are not led alone. The Fire of the Spirit is on-you and in-you; it’s your natural award for being born.
To those of Goodwill, may you experience Life be at Peace in a Clean and Healthy Environmment through the Order of Worldwide Reverence(OWR) that seeks to promote the Sanctity of Life in OWR Time for Everything and Everybody, Everywhere on Earth.(THE “E” WORLD)
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December 5, 2014 at 1:24 pm
Sonofman, reach into your grab bag and pull out what you want and use it how you want. Let me guess, when Jesus responds and says something you like it’s recorded accurately, but when Jesus says something that you don’t like you either spin it, or it was corrupted by man. Convenient.
For you has matter always been? Cosmologicaly impossible. Yet, are you going to call it a mystery? super natural? Unexplainable? Your faith is strong 🙂
Oh, I’m spot on.
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December 5, 2014 at 4:02 pm
Leo,
Of course you’re at liberty to take scriptural quotes as you determine. That’s what free will is all about. And as Yahshua / Jesus so directed, “Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.” (John 5:39)
By the word of YHVH / LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. (Psalm 33:6)
He gathers the waters of the sea together as an heap: He lays up the depth in storehouses. (Psalm 33:7)
Let all the earth fear YHVH; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. (Psalm 33:8)
For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast. (Psalm 33:9)
YHVH brings the counsel of the heathen to nought: He makes the devices of the people of none effect. (Psalm 33:10)
The counsel of YHVH stands for ever, the thoughts of His Heart to all generations. (Psalm 33:11)
Blessed is the nation whose God is YHVH; and the people whom He has chosen for His own inheritance. (Psalm 33:12)
YHVH looks from heaven; He beholds all the sons of men. (Psalm 33:13)
From the place of His habitation He looks upon all the inhabitants of the earth. (Psalm 33:14)
He fashions their hearts alike; He considers all their works. (Psalm 33:15)
Behold, the eye of YHVH is upon them that fear Him, upon them that hope in His mercy; (Psalm 33:18)
To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. (Psalm 33:19)
Our soul waits for YHVH: He is our help and our shield. (Psalm 33:20)
For our heart shall rejoice in Him, because we have trusted in His holy name. (Psalm 33:21)
Let Your mercy, O YHVH, be upon us, according as we hope in You. (Psalm 33:22)
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December 5, 2014 at 8:25 pm
Sorry but whatever you tried to say in Post # 13 is incomprehensible and makes no sense….try again, using proper sentences, syntax and make your point so the reader can understand.
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December 5, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Frank:
You’re out of your league with these scriptures. these are the kind of scriptures that demonstrate religous fanaticism of supernatural religonists; but it does nothing for common sense and realism about humanity. It is not something that Jesus ever quoted because it all belongs to the supernatural hoax of religion to begin with; it is meaningless. Psalms are useless as far as scriptures go. Quote Proverbs and you will be doing something nice.
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December 7, 2014 at 4:49 am
[…] For the previous installments: part 1, 2. […]
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December 7, 2014 at 1:32 pm
Leo,
Evidently, you don’t have the grasp you think you have concerning Biblical Scriptures:
And He said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me. (Luke 24:44)
As it is written, “Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” (Proverbs 26:5)
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December 7, 2014 at 7:30 pm
Frank:
I know you mean well and I don’t want to be unkind but you are just out of touch with the real Jesus. You see, I know you you don’t know anything about Jesus, who he was, what his mission was, what he really atands for, because you can’t understand scripture on your own so you toe the line of the status quo; that is, what you’ve been taught by clergy who themselves are in the dark about Jesus. This is a case of the blind leading the blind.
In addition Frank, about not knowing Jesus; you only know the bible “textually” but that’s no smarter than a 5th Grader; I mean, anybody can read the bible textually and recite the bible “textually” but if you don’t understand the meaning , the essence of what you’re quoting, you may just as well recite Three Blind Mice.
Now you quoted Proverbs 26:5 for me to use as an arrow being hurled at me, I know that, but that doesn’t fizz me because you don’t understand what you’re saying. “forgive them Father for they know not what they do”.
Why did you not quote the previous scripture Prov 26:4 which says: “DO NOT answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. Why did you quote one and not the other since these are conjunctive quotes and you need to know what they both mean and whether you should use one or the other is important. One says DON’T ANSWER and the other says DO ANSWER so what’s the difference? I have already made this difference abundantly clear in previous posts. Can you tell me the difference since they seem to contradict each other?
Reading the bible “textually” just doesn’t cut it Frank. In older times the masses were discouraged from reading the bible because it was said only the clergy could interpret the scriptures and still even thougn you read the bible and quote it, you have little to no understanding. Here is a typical example for you to decipher Frank: Jphn 13:18: Jesus said: “He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.”
What does “….lifted up his heel against me….” mean Frank? Do you know?
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December 8, 2014 at 8:53 am
To dgjesdal :
I see that you have engaged sonofman (aka Leo , aka LTG)
As you have discovered, engaging this person is fruitless….I have made the mistake of trying to reason with him and have some intelligent discussions about Jesus etc….to no avail. It always comes back to the same thing where us Christians are just duped by the clergy and religious supernatural nonsense. Yet I’m supposed to accept his “Father-within” theology…..
The best thing to do is disengage from these discussions. I have spent far too much time “arguing” with him myself. So just save your breath my friend…
If it was up to me, I would have banned him long long time ago from this blog.
Naz
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December 8, 2014 at 11:13 am
Poor Naz:
Oh you have to warn others. Well Naz you have never had one single “intelligent” about Jesus because you have no idea what Jesus was all about. The only “intelligence” you understand is Intelligent Design.
As a matter of fact what you call my “Father within” theology is actually Jesus’ philosophy but as for theology that was not for Jesus either as he condemned your religious points of view 2000 years ago but the clergy persists and the brainwashing of proselytes like yourself still continues. But as for anybody they can easily read the words of Jesus for themself without listening to your skewed concept about what it means. Luke 20 Now when Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Now who lives in the Kingdom.. the Father Naz, the Father as Jesus constantly referred to throughout the Gospels. The same Gospels you claim to follow….End of story.
But Naz you really are harsh wanting to ban me; now even though you have a completely erroneous perception about everything in the bible and about Jesus I would not want to ban you. Even though you are a prick that is not enough to silence you.: “Acts 9:5/26:14 And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks / It is not for you to kick against your own conscience regarding those you disagree with
Christianity has almost everything going its way – culture and art for the last two millennia have been subject to its influence. It is in the home, it permeates society, and it recruits young. You can try to keep the flock faithful by silencing critics – or, failing that, petitioning the faithful to boycott their works. Alternatively, you can hone your own arguments, rally your evangelists, and spread the good word: and let your rivals do the same.
But Naz, you personally are lacking intelligence in your design.
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December 8, 2014 at 11:22 am
A typo above : should read Luke 17:20-21 Now when Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
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December 8, 2014 at 11:32 am
Naz:
What a Goad you are!
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December 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm
Leo, we’ve been down this road so much it is worn down…..I’m sad to say that you have created your own Jesus in your own image.
As you said,
“Reject my words and you reject Jesus’ words, simple as that.”
Enough said….
Naz
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December 8, 2014 at 4:26 pm
[…] the previous installments: part 1, 2, […]
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December 8, 2014 at 8:58 pm
Naz:
I’m sad to say but what you say and reality are two different things.
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December 9, 2014 at 12:24 pm
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December 12, 2014 at 11:21 am
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December 16, 2014 at 5:31 pm
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