The CA Supreme Court voted on Friday, January 23 to prohibit state judges from being affiliated with the Boy Scouts on the grounds that the Boy Scouts discriminate against gays. Apparently the Court voted in 1996 to prohibit judges from participating in any organization that discriminated against someone because of their sexual orientation, but had an exception clause for youth organizations including the Boy Scouts. That exception has been rescinded. This brings CA in line with 21 other states that have the same prohibition.
This ruling strikes me as troubling for a number of reasons:
- I am troubled by the fact that the government thinks it has the authority to regulate what judges do and who they associate with in their private lives. While I understand that certain associations (such as an association with the KKK) would call the judge’s reputation and moral sanity into question, let the voters decide whether or not the judge’s private life is tolerable and consistent with his duty as a judge.
- I am troubled that such a hard line is being taken regarding an issue that our country is evenly divided on. The Boy Scouts, like the vast majority of human beings for millennia and roughly half of Americans today, think homosex is morally wrong. To prohibit judges from affiliating with an organization that has, as one of its values, a conviction against homosex is elitist at its core. It is to say by judicial fiat that half of Americans are wrong on the moral question, and are actually being immoral themselves when they affirm the immorality of homosex. Who are they to determine the proper answer to the moral question?
- Strictly speaking, the Boy Scouts do not discriminate against anyone’s sexual orientation. Rather, they discriminate based on one’s sexual behavior. They are not concerned with one’s sexual desires, but with how they respond to those sexual desires. Surely there are leaders in the Boy Scouts that have a polyandrous sexual orientation (the desire to have sex with women other than their spouse), but the Boy Scouts does not discriminate against such leaders unless they act on that orientation and engage in adulterous sexual activity. The same is true of those with a homosexual orientation.
- WARNING: EXPLICT MATERIAL TO FOLLOW: I am troubled by what I see as the demonization of those who have a principled moral objection to homosex. Why should it be thought strange to disapprove of homosex? What is truly strange is an approval of homosex. Humans are obviously designed to function sexually with the opposite sex, not the same sex. It is obvious on a biological level that the penis is naturally designed for use with the vagina, and vice-versa. It is just as obvious that the anus is not designed as a receptacle for the penis (unlike the vagina, the anus does not produce lubricant during sexual arousal to aid in its penetration by the penis, nor does the semen that is deposited in the anus perform any biological function). Homosex is unnatural in every way, and when one’s sexual desires do not allow them to use their sexual organ in the way it was designed to function, something is clearly amiss. One is free to think there is no moral significance to using one’s sexual organs in an unnatural way, but that does not change the fact that homosex is, at its heart, unnatural.Homosex is akin to using a cell phone as a hammer. Yes, it’s possible to use a cell phone in that way, but clearly it is not what the cell phone was intended for. Those who use it that way are using it the wrong way, and are causing damage to the phone. Those who want to claim that there is no difference between heterosex and homosex are akin to those who would say there is no difference between using your cell phone to talk and using it to hammer nails. This is irrational. So why demonize those who recognize and distinguish between the proper use and improper use of sexuality? Why demonize those that recognize there is something wrong when a man treats another man sexually as if he were a woman? Why demonize those who recognize something is amiss when a man or woman is psychologically incapable of using their sexual organ for its natural and biologically-intended use? This much seems obvious.
Does the fact that homosex is unnatural mean we should mistreat those who experience homosexual attractions or engage in homosex? Of course not. They need our love, support, and help. But neither does that mean that we must be accepting of their behavior or pretend that it is morally, socially, and biologically the same as heterosex. To say a judge cannot be affiliated with a group like the Boy Scouts is to do just that. It is to declare that if a judge thinks there is a difference between heterosex and homosex, he must hold this view privately and cannot affiliate himself with any organization that holds to the same view. That is wrong.
January 29, 2015 at 7:31 am
Anyone who discriminates against gays’ sexual orientation IS a demon. Anybody scissoring the language of sexual orientation is manipulating language for their own demonic spin because splitting “sexual behavior” that inevitably follows from sexual orientation is “a distinction without a difference”.
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January 29, 2015 at 10:30 am
I can likewise and just as easily assert that anyone who thinks gay sex is moral is a demon. Where do such assertions get us?
So those who make a distinction between a pedophiliac sexual orientation and actually engaging in sex with children is a distinction without a difference? I don’t think so. It’s a distinction between desires and behaviors. There’s a huge moral difference between the two.
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January 29, 2015 at 11:34 am
Jason:
Unfortunately the love you claim to offer homosexuals is pseudo-love of your kind because of you Absolute Certainty but not your own, you are getting that information from the ancients who didn’t know any better and had less education than an elementary school child today; the same ancients who thought that blood letting would remit sins and so they had to kill something to redeem their sins and the sins of the community and if that meant killing their their children well; that’s how God worked in those days too, isn’t Jason. You seem to think that God spoke to the ancients and told them exactly how to behave and live. That is not the way civilization grew. Your mind is trying to reconcile humanity by what the ancients thought too many thousands of years ago when they were still killing their kids to appease the Gods to end the drought or for bumper crops or a good hunt. Come out of that past Jason, come out of it for your own sanity.
No you can’t use the pedophilia projection and compare it with homosexual behavior. You’re using a logical fallacy to spin the abhorrent behavior of sex with children committed by people not playing with a full deck by virtue of brain damage. By using the pedophilia card you are comparing oranges and orangutans and your use of the comparison is clearly used to demonize homosexuals by emphasizing pedophilia to assert your disgust of the anomaly of homosexuality because you refuse to accept the normality of the anomaly in humans as very common and common in all mammals fish and more likely than not in all life forms on earth with some reproduction taking place without
Gay people do not have damaged brains but because of gestational anomaly in the womb, the man’s body develops a female sexually oriented brain and the female body develops a male, sexually oriented brain in the case of lesbians.
Neither the penis nor the vagina identifies sexual orientation, these “organs” to use your term, are merely the mechanical body part devices that are triggered by and experienced by the brain in exactly the same way that you don’t hear with your ear, where you hear is in the brain. The ears, eyes and other sensory nerves and bodily parts are mere conduits to the brain, the Master Control Room. You don’t need to be a Biologist to know these things.
Maybe you need to research the Bluehead Wrasse: here’s a brief article about their sexual orientation: when females turn into males if the males are removed from the colony
“Sex change has been studied in bluehead wrasses primarily using field manipulations, where it can be induced in large females by removing dominant terminal phase males from small reefs. Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) neurons differ across sexual phenotypes in the hypothalamus of bluehead wrasses and also with androgen implants that induce sex change. Behavioral sex change is very rapid in bluehead wrasses under field conditions, with male-typical behaviors being observed within minutes to hours after dominant terminal phase males are removed from the reef school. Interestingly, behavioral sex change occurs even in females whose gonads (ovaries) have been surgically removed prior to becoming socially dominant. Behavioral sex change is associated with increases in expression of a neuropeptide hormone termed arginine vasotocin or AVT and these increases occur regardless of whether sex changing females have gonads or not.”
Now who would have thunk that a female fish would turn into a male just by removing the dominant male from the school of fish but this doesn’t seem to be a mistake at play here as I submit it is in humans; this is the “Way It Is” so get over it, you are wrong in your obstinacy, not you personally Jason, I love you and know you need our help and support but I can not love your obstinate behavior.
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February 6, 2015 at 11:26 am
Son of Man,
You employ the “chronological snobbery” argument that the ancients were stupid but we are enlightened. Did they get some things wrong? Surely, but that doesn’t mean they got everything wrong. Indeed, 100 years from now people will look back on some of the things we believe and say we were stupid too. Truth does not have an expiration date, so we would expect some truths to be ancient. This is one of them. People back then understood just as well as we do today the purpose of human sexuality and the way our bodies were created to function sexually. Clearly that does not include homosex.
As for pedophilia, you say they have brain damage. Prove it! The same thing was said of homosexuals before. Besides, the point was not to equate homosexuality with pedophila, but to show the difference between desires and actions. You need to see the forest instead of the trees. Red herrings won’t work on me.
Now you claim to know what causes people to be gay? That’s interesting since even those who specialize in the field don’t claim to know. And those who specialize in the field make it clear that it can’t be just biological. That much is obvious from twin studies. Whether identical or non-identical, only in a minority of cases will you find that both babies are homosexual. They got the same bath, so why aren’t they both homosexual? They’re not both homosexual because homosexual desires are either not caused by biology at all, or are not determined by biology.
Sexual orientation is not the issue. The issue is what the organs are used for. What if one desires to use their nose to defecate out of. They have a “deficating nose orientation.” Does that mean the nose is for defecating, or that they should have surgery to match their biology to their desires? No. Their nose is not intended for that purpose. And if they desire to use it for that purpose, something is clearly wrong psychologically.
Humans are not Bluehead Wrasse. Nothing else need be said.
Jason
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February 9, 2015 at 11:56 am
Jason, you’re wasting your time talking to Leo. He’ll just bury your post in a blizzard of words.
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February 9, 2015 at 8:13 pm
Scalia:
You made me so lol with your comment, as though Jason was not capable of defending his position with his own “blizzard” of words. Instead of warning Jason perhaps you should have offered your own thoughts on the subjects discussed; or, don’t you have any?
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February 10, 2015 at 6:11 am
Jason:
“Whether identical or non-identical, only in a minority of cases will you find that both babies are homosexual. They got the same bath, so why aren’t they both homosexual?”
But that’s just the point you keep missing. When we talk about biology we generally mean normal functioning biology; when I talk about gestational anomalies, it’s still biology but it’s not the normal functioning biology “according to hoyle”; it’s biology gone awry which direct cause I DO NOT claim to know by the way, but I know (witness) the “effect” in much the same (similar misfunction) way that cleft palate and cleft lip develop; clefting is still biology; it’s just not the normal, non-clefting functioning of most developing fetuses. But we don’t cast aspersions and attribute the anomaly to “sin in the eyes of god and the bible” or reprehensible retardation and behavior although children are often outcast by their peers because of it. Your “twin” research comments miss the mark entirely.
I don’t need a degree in microbiology to understand that gestational variants are widespread in a multitude of ways; and, one does not need a PhD in chicken farming to know if an egg is hard boiled, soft boiled, fried, scrambled or even tasty.
“As for pedophilia, you say they have brain damage. Prove it!” Pedophilia behavior shows they are not playing with a full deck of neurons; other behavioral observations in human systems provide proof sufficient of brain damage, quadraplegia, catatonia, schizophrenic, sclerosis, other psychiatric/mental disorders.
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February 12, 2015 at 12:04 am
SonofMan,
Your comments are missing the mark. If the cause of same-sex attraction is genetic, then identical twins should always be both straight or both gay, but they aren’t. If it’s hormonal influences in the womb, then all twins (identical and fraternal) should be both straight or both gay. But they aren’t, which proves that it can’t be caused by biology alone (if at all).
You didn’t prove that pedophiles have brain damage. You just asserted it again. Even if there was evidence that it was caused by or influenced by brain malfunctioning, that wouldn’t make it wrong. Remember, there are no objective moral values. While you may not like a 40 year old man sleeping with a 10 year old girl, he does nothing wrong by doing so. That’s just his preference. Yours just happens to differ from his. No one is right or wrong. It just comes down to social mores and preferences, and those in power who get to say which preferences will be accepted and which ones will be punished. Try selling that one!
Jason
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February 16, 2015 at 4:30 pm
“……….which proves that it can’t be caused by biology alone (if at all).”
Jason how would you argue with Jesus about man not being attracted to woman or vice versa, when he uttered these words in the following bible translations?:
“So they are no longer two separate people but one. No man therefore must separate what God has joined together.”
7 “Then why,” they retorted, “did Moses command us to give a written divorce-notice and dismiss the woman?”
8-9 “It was because you knew so little of the meaning of love that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives! But that was not the original principle. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife on any grounds except her unfaithfulness and marries some other woman commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to him, “If that is a man’s position with his wife, it is not worth getting married!”
11-12 “It is not everybody who can live up to this,” replied Jesus, “—only those who have a special gift. For some are incapable of marriage from birth, some are made incapable by the action of men, and some have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let the man who can accept what I have said accept it.”
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“11 Jesus answered, “Not everyone can accept this ·teaching [word], but ·God has made some able to accept it [or only those given this gift of celibacy; L only to those whom it has been given]. 12 ·There are different reasons why some men cannot marry [L For…]. Some men were born ·without the ability to become fathers [L as eunuchs]. Others were made ·that way later in life [L eunuchs] by other people [C males would sometimes be castrated as punishment, or to serve in harems]. And some men have ·given up marriage because [L made themselves eunuchs for the sake] of the kingdom of heaven [C through abstinence, not necessarily castration]. ·But the person who can marry should accept this teaching about marriage [or The person who can accept this teaching about not marrying should accept it].”
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“It was because you knew so little of the meaning of love that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives! But that was not the original principle. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife on any grounds except her unfaithfulness and marries some other woman commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to him, “If that is a man’s position with his wife, it is not worth getting married!”
11-12 “It is not everybody who can live up to this,” replied Jesus, “—only those who have a special gift. For some are incapable of marriage from birth, some are made incapable by the action of men, and some have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let the man who can accept what I have said accept it.”
———————————————————————-
“8-9 Jesus said, “Moses provided for divorce as a concession to your hard heartedness, but it is not part of God’s original plan. I’m holding you to the original plan, and holding you liable for adultery if you divorce your faithful wife and then marry someone else. I make an exception in cases where the spouse has committed adultery.”
10 Jesus’ disciples objected, “If those are the terms of marriage, we’re stuck. Why get married?”
11-12 But Jesus said, “Not everyone is mature enough to live a married life. It requires a certain aptitude and grace. Marriage isn’t for everyone. Some, from birth seemingly, never give marriage a thought. Others never get asked—or accepted. And some decide not to get married for kingdom reasons. But if you’re capable of growing into the largeness of marriage, do it.”
————————————————————————
“12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it
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February 16, 2015 at 10:01 pm
SonofMan,
What does that response have to do with what I said?
Jason
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February 17, 2015 at 7:16 am
The simple fact that Eunuchs are that way from the womb; how can you not understand that in the context of what you said (which I quoted what you said in the opening sentence: “……….which proves that it can’t be caused by biology alone (if at all).” ) regarding your position that gay is not “out of the womb”; in other words, gestational anomaly.
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February 18, 2015 at 9:52 am
SonofMan,
Why is it that when I give you evidence that invalidates your claim, rather than owning up to it you try to divert the conversation to the Bible? Instead of saying, “You are right. The facts do not support my theory” you say, “But if you are right, then the Bible is wrong.” Even if the Bible is wrong on this issue (and it’s not, as I’ll explain in a moment), it’s irrelevant to what we are discussing. We’re not talking about whether or not the Bible contains errors. We’re talking about whether or not science has proven that same-sex attraction has a biological connection (yet alone biologically determined). So will you admit that your theory is false, and acknowledge that there is no scientific evidence for a biological cause for same-sex attraction? If not, then show me how you can reconcile the fact that only a minority of twins are both gay, when at least one twin is gay.
As for the Scripture you referenced, you are trying to read “sexual orientation” into this passage when clearly that is not Jesus’ point. This is clear from Jesus’ statement that “some are made incapable by the action of men.” What can I do to you that will change your sexual orientation? Nothing (particularly if you hold the view that sexual orientation is fixed at birth). Jesus isn’t talking about sexual orientation. He’s talking about castration. Some men cut off other men’s penises so they can serve the king, sing like little boys, or whatever. The lack of a penis is also what he is referring to when he says some are “incapable of marriage from birth.” Due to a birth defect, they do not have a penis (or at least a fully developed or functioning penis). Even when he says that some make themselves so for the sake of the kingdom, he is either referring to castration or celibacy (more likely the latter). He’s not saying they have to sexual desire, but rather that they are denying themselves their desire for sex for the sake of furthering God’s kingdom. None of this has anything to do with what we are talking about: the origin of same-sex attraction. And none of this supports your thesis that same-sex attraction is caused by hormones in the womb.
Jason
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February 18, 2015 at 10:53 am
Jason:
You exercise a double standard. On the one hand you require scientific proof for my positions but depend on your belief system only to argue against it or argue for objective morals and your belief in a god. which for some reason you just accept the fact that there is not one shred of scientific proof for the existence of the paranormal god yet that’s okay with you because it’s not required for belief; it’s only required if one does not have the belief; then, you demand science to rescue your position of being against all things science in your case.
Amnd why would your belief in god among other beliefs that your belief is better or stronger or accurate compared to my belief that same sex attraction is gestational anomaly? I can accept that based on common sense and understanding in conjunction with world experiences whether science has yet to reveal the exact causes of things you can only see and some you can’t with an electron microscope.
I know you are wrong! that your absence of science is evidence that it is a choice but as I told you before there is no such thing as same sex attraction; what you continue to describe is same “APPARENT” sex attraction but remember the sex orientation is between your ears not between your legs; what is you always say whenever you can’t admit defeat, the absence of evidence does the evidence of absence. Except when you demand it n’est ce pas?
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