John Piper writes:
[T]here are two kinds of approaches to questionable practices in life. One I would call a minimalist approach to holiness and godliness. The other maximalist.
In the first case, your typical question is, “Well, what is wrong with it?” It would apply to movies and music, and kids often ask their parents, “What is wrong with it?” And the other approach is not to ask, “What is wrong with it?” mainly, but, “Will it make me more Christ like? Will it make me more devoted to Jesus? … Will it make me more bold in witness or weaken me? Will it help me be spiritually discerning of the ways of Satan in the world and will it help me lay up treasures in heaven?” …
You can see that there are these two kinds of approaches to life. I want to maximize my godliness and my holiness by drawing nearer and nearer to God, and the other one is just trying to do as many things as you can do without being tripped up explicitly by sin.
How true!
Thinking to Believe 
January 13, 2017 at 8:59 am
John Piper seems to be following the guidance of the following scripture:
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
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January 13, 2017 at 11:54 am
When people talk to me about Satan, God, Angels and Demons it reminds me of Santa, Reindeer, Elves and Leprechauns: Created Caricature Concepts that nobody can define no matter how many descriptors used to explain them by.
When I was a kid Santa, Reindeer, Elves and Leprechauns made no sense to me and my common sense rejected them. I never accepted them and never received gifts to reward a belief systemI never had, that was the folly of the generation that went before me; as a result of being too smart no reward of materialism came to me but truth and knowledge; aaahhhh, now that was the finer reward.
When I became an adult Satan, God, Angels and Demons made no sense to me and my common sense rejected them. But knowledge and truth, now that’s a reward and that reward that came to me was affirmed by a person Jesus Christ when he told me that he was exactly like me. That is my gift and that is my guidance and very few people know Jesus because of the belief system, supernaturalism and superstition he was labelled with like the generations that went before him.
My common sense was correct as a kid and as an adult my common sense is still correct.
There can be no guiding light in belief, supernaturalism and superstition; quote Jesus when you quote scripture and I will know if you understand him or not.
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January 16, 2017 at 6:53 am
As Christians we are united with Christ already and there is nothing that can make us closer or nearer to God. We are as close as we can get right now.
We are holy because Christ had made us holy. As we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord our minds are renewed and hopefully this leads to better choices in life that God would want for me and that are consistent with our true character as a child of God.
Our actions, good or bad, do not make us more or less holy. This is incorrect theology.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Naz
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January 18, 2017 at 5:24 am
Sometimes though, the “maximalising” holy living can make one “too spiritually minded to be of any earthly use”.
I’m sure you can all think of someone that fits this criteria!
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January 18, 2017 at 10:30 am
scottspeig:”
In other words I think you mean:
“You don’t imagine that God takes any pleasure in having a heaven filled with men and women redeemed by his incarnate son who will be as useless in heaven as they were on earth? Stacked in bundles of 10, dusted with DDT once a week by a bunch of angels, waving hands and thumping bibles from the pew, do you imagine that’s what heaven’s going to be like? Heaven is going to be populated with men, women, boys and girls, who’ve been restored to their redeemed and now true humanity because in the day that the Lord Jesus gets through to us through our thick brain, we might be restored to our true humanity and become by adoption members of his family.”
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January 18, 2017 at 9:58 pm
scottspeig, maybe with a false sense of holiness, but not with true holiness. True holiness always makes us earthly good. Otherwise we would be saying that one must be a bit worldly in order to be of earthly good. If that was the case, I don’t know how Jesus was so effective! 🙂
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January 18, 2017 at 10:00 pm
Naz, just as Scripture presents salvation as an “already but not yet” reality, the same is true of sanctification. In one sense, we are already sanctified. In another sense, we are growing in our sanctification. We are to become in reality more and more like what God has declared us to be. But there is clearly a growth, and some take a minimalist approach to it, and some take a maximalist approach.
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January 19, 2017 at 6:20 am
Jason, yes I agree we are growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord and our minds are being renewed daily. As long as we understand our true and actual identity as sanctified and holy, then and only then can it be worked out in our lives. With this in mind we can also realize that we are as close to God as we can be since our holiness is from Him and not fabricated by us. So the notion of drawing nearer and nearer to God through acts of holiness, as the author pointed out, is a flawed concept in my opinion.
Regarding our approach, I think that’s an individual thing that each of us must determine in our own heart. It can’t be legislated but must be an outworking of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Thanks for your feedback.
Naz
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January 19, 2017 at 10:18 am
Naz:
As our bodies are renewed daily by taking a shower, our minds are renewed daily by thinking and meditating, as our brains are renewed (rebooted) by sleeping.
Thoughts come from every corner in all aspects; some thoughts we chew on, meditate about, chew on and swallow keenly.
Other thoughts come, we chew on them, meditate on them, chew on them and spit them out. This is a continuous renewing of our minds daily.
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January 19, 2017 at 10:48 am
Leo, what’s the source of our thoughts and how do we know what to swallow and what to spit out ?
Naz
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January 19, 2017 at 12:31 pm
Naz:
Thoughts are the product of spontaneous generation, as far as anybody knows, because of the random nature that thoughts arise. Of course there are environment stimuli the participate through the sense that also give rise to thought. This spontaneous generation also is open to the argument against free will; however the counter argument may be that when the thought comes of which there is no apparent source, when it comes into our mind; but here is where free will may effect outcome when we meditate: the thought is chewed on for its efficacy as per our spiritual value system and bodily values, either swallow it as a good piece of meat or spit it out as a bad piece of meat.
It is usually at this point that the spirit and the flesh intersect and we decide what to chew on and reject or what we chew on and retain when the powers wrestle us in meditation and where spirit virtue and body pleasure battle it out to accept hedonism or discipline denial; it’s like a jousting duel.
Mind you, hedonism is not always a bad thing and has its place; when we’re hungry for example or thirsty or when the body requires cleanliness or when the body’s design stimulates the procreative role to manifestation, all part of the life processes but even in these instances discretion to avoid gluttony or obsession with cares, riches and pleasures available to the body, come into play.
And here is a good time to remember the cautionary verse…”All things in moderation”
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January 20, 2017 at 9:47 am
All things in moderation ?
Who told you that ?
Naz
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January 20, 2017 at 4:16 pm
Naz:
There are a lot of references for “Moderation in all things”.
Titus 1: 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Being temperate is to use moderation in all things or to exercise self-control.
Philippians 4:5 – Let your moderation be known unto all men.
Alma 7:23 And now I would that ye should be humble, and be submissive and gentle; easy to be entreated; full of patience and long-suffering; ………………..being temperate in all things;………………. being diligent in keeping the commandments of God at all times; asking for whatsoever things ye stand in need, both spiritual and temporal; always returning thanks unto God for whatsoever things ye do receive.
The phrase, “Moderation in all things,” is common extrapolation of Aristotle’s Doctrine of the Mean (as presented in his Nicomachean Ethics). His ethic works around finding the mean, or middle ground, between excess and deficiency. An example of this would be his presentation of courage being the happy medium between the extreme of rash action and the deficiency of cowardice, in respect to a person’s possible action in the face of danger.
It should be noted that Aristotle’s ethic is often misundertood by its summary: moderation in all things. It is frequently reasoned by those unfamiliar with context that the common phrase means that a person should approach all things (whether healthy or unhealthy) with moderation; therefore, reasoning that a moderate amount of a bad thing can be indulged is not uncommon to find. This is an inaccurate representation of the perspective summarized in the popular phrase.
“A happy person will exhibit a personality appropriately balanced between reasons and desires, with moderation characterizing all.” Aristotle.[
But what about Scripture? Though there is no direct quotation matching the proverb, Paul does use a similar idea in his description of the successful athlete:
And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown (1 Corinthians 9:25).
While Paul could be making reference to an Aristotalean sort of ethic of moderation here, it is more likely that the phrase translated here as “temperate in all things” should be better rendered as “wholly self-controlled” or “entirely self-disciplined.”
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January 23, 2017 at 9:35 am
Leo, I was being facetious in my last comment about moderation.
But why are you quoting Paul ?
According to you he never knew Jesus …right ? Why should I believe anything Paul says ?
Naz
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January 23, 2017 at 8:54 pm
Maybe you need to say that your comments are facetious when that is what you mean; otherwise, I do not believe comments are anything other than your conviction without smiley faces.
Some things Paul says make sense other things are nonsense. I quote Thomas Jefferson sometimes and he never met Jesus either but that doesn’t mean he can’t talk sense.
I am a discerner of sense and nonsense. Sometimes, Naz, even you make sense and at times I have commended you as well.
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February 7, 2017 at 12:58 pm
Naz, while we might be as close to God as we can be positionally, I don’t think that is true in actuality. What he has declared us to be and what we currently are are two different things. And I think our level of sanctification does make a difference in our relationship with God. When I am living in a manner that does not match up to what God has declared me to be, I feel it. And the same is true in the opposite direction. Our actions matter and make a difference. Just like in a marriage. I have been declared married, but when I do things that tear down the marriage relationship rather than build it, it affects the quality of our relationship. Am I still married? Of course. Has my status changed? No. But the marriage can be better or worse depending on how I approach my beloved. The same thing is true with God. When I live in a way that is pleasing to Him, our relationship is better for it. And when I live in a way that is not pleasing to Him, I’m still in relationship, but the relationship is worse for it.
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