The more secular a society becomes, the more coercive it becomes. If there is no transcendent law-giver to guide the beliefs and behavior of the people, then the State will fill the void. If a society does not recognize a higher authority (a Law above the law), then the political will of the State becomes the ultimate good. Those who resist and dissent will be made to “unite” through power and coercion.
For secularists, “unity” means everyone agrees with them. All dissent must be crushed. It’s no coincidence that the political Left is advocating against free speech and trying to shut down conservative news sources and organizations. As Ben Shapiro has noted, the Left’s idea of “diversity” is not a diversity of ideas, but a diversity of genders and colors all saying the same thing.
Thinking to Believe 
April 20, 2021 at 11:25 am
No matter what happens in this world we must stay the course, keep the Faith and walk the walk which is what God is calling us to do.
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April 22, 2021 at 3:34 pm
“The more secular a society becomes, the more coercive it becomes.”
Oh, on the contrary…it’s actually the exact opposite.
The most SECULAR nations in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion) include Estonia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Japan, Hong Kong, UK, Finland, France, Australia, Netherlands, New Zealand
Meanwhile, the most RELIGIOUS countries in the world include Oman, Ethiopia, Somalia, Yemen, Egypt, Indonesia, Morocco, Myanmar, Jordan, Algeria, Chad, Ghana, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Iraq.
Here’s the list of nations that TOP the Freedom Index (https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2020 and download the PDF): New Zealand, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Ireland, Canada, Denmark, Australia, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Estonia.
And here is the list of nations at the BOTTOM of the Freedom Index: Syria, Sudan, Venezuela, Yemen, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Chad, Myanmar, Congo, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia and Zimbabwe.
Notice the overlaps? The most COERCIVE nations are also among the most RELIGIOUS, whereas the most FREE nations are among the most SECULAR.
“If there is no transcendent law-giver to guide the beliefs and behavior of the people, then the State will fill the void.”
No, it’s the PEOPLE’S beliefs that fill the void. The US was the first secular nation ever founded, with its only mention of religion being exclusionary (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”). Our nation was founded of the people, by the people, for the people–not by any religion. And our founding fathers made it very clear in multiple explanations of the Constitution that they believed in a separation of church and state:
• “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.” — James Madison
• “Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.” — James Madison
• “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” — James Madison
• “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.” — James Madison
“If a society does not recognize a higher authority (a Law above the law), then the political will of the State becomes the ultimate good. Those who resist and dissent will be made to “unite” through power and coercion.”
You’re thinking of authoritarian regimes (which must be the highest power in the land, and thus either controls or rejects religion), not secular nations. Look at that list of most secular nations again. They are also among the happiest, healthiest and crime-free nations (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201410/secular-societies-fare-better-religious-societies, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report, http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/healthiest-countries/)
It’s the religious nations that are the problem, not the secular ones. Because when you believe your religion is the absolute right one and every other one is wrong, you can justify almost any evil behavior, from the Israelites committing genocide, to the Spanish Inquisition’s reign of terror, to Hitler’s Holocaust.
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May 11, 2021 at 8:13 pm
Derek, yes, those countries are just bastions of tolerance and liberty, aren’t they? Is that why Christians are being arrested for citing Scriptures against homosexuality? The Left is totalitarian.
That said, I agree that being religious does not make a country tolerant. It depends on which religion is in view, and how consistently the people of that religion apply their religious ideals.
As for saying the U.S. is a secular nation, that is absurd! Our founding fathers were deeply (and almost unbelievably) religious, and publicly so at that. But they set up the government so that it could not mandate someone’s religious beliefs and practices. They did so because they wanted religion to flourish, not because they were anti-religious or irreligious.
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May 21, 2021 at 3:09 pm
“Derek, yes, those countries are just bastions of tolerance and liberty, aren’t they?”
Yes, actually, they are. As I mentioned above, according to the Cato Institute Human Freedom Index 2020 (which comprehensively evaluates the levels of freedom in all the major nations of the world), the nations with the highest levels of personal, civil, and economic freedom are New Zealand, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Ireland, Canada, Denmark, Australia, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Estonia: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2021-03/human-freedom-index-2020.pdf
“Is that why Christians are being arrested for citing Scriptures against homosexuality? The Left is totalitarian.”
I’m not sure what incident you’re referring to, but I’m willing to bet it was a one-time or extremely rare occurrence that ended with the person being released. If so, then you’re painting the left as totalitarian without reasonable justification. Keep in mind, it’s the RIGHT that’s drawn to totalitarianism and authoritarianism, not the left.
“As for saying the U.S. is a secular nation, that is absurd! Our founding fathers were deeply (and almost unbelievably) religious, and publicly so at that. But they set up the government so that it could not mandate someone’s religious beliefs and practices. They did so because they wanted religion to flourish, not because they were anti-religious or irreligious.”
Not according to the founding fathers themselves. They deliberately eliminated all references to religion from the Constitution except for one, which is EXCLUSIONARY, not inclusionary: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The reason for this was because many Americans came to this country to escape religious persecution by various European governments that imposed their own versions of Christianity upon them. I think you may have bought into the Christian nationalist myth. I’ve studied this topic quite a bit, so let me go into some detail to show you why this view is mistaken–and I’ll include quite a few quotes from our founding fathers to make it clear what they really thought:
Christian nationalists claim that the US is a Christian nation based on Christian principles. Clearly most Americans today are still Christians, but this nation was not founded on Christianity. In fact, most of the Founding Fathers were not theistic Christians, but instead deistic Christians (meaning they believed in the moral teachings of Jesus but not his divinity), as well as Unitarians and deists. For this reason, it should come as no surprise that the deistic term “Nature’s God” appears in the Declaration of Independence, and the words “Jesus” and “Christianity” appear exactly ZERO times in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.
The Founding Fathers were inspired by the philosophy of the Enlightenment popular at the time, and they created a government based on liberty and equality, not Christian authoritarianism. And that included the principle of freedom of and freedom from religion, so that no one could be forced to follow or support a religion they didn’t believe in. This meant separation of church and state so that no single religion would be favored, thus protecting all religious positions equally.
You may wish to point out that the term “separation of church and state” also doesn’t appear in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. That’s true, however the Founding Fathers wrote numerous books, letters, treaties and other documents clarifying the meaning of our constitutional rights, and that’s where we find the term “separation of church and state” and other words to that effect. For example:
Thomas Jefferson, Father of the Declaration of Independence, stated:
• “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” — Thomas Jefferson
James Madison, Father of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, stated:
• “The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.” — James Madison
• “Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.” — James Madison
• “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” — James Madison
• “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.” — James Madison
So the Founding Fathers strongly believed in the separation of church and state. Furthermore, many of them also made it clear that they did not have a favorable view of Christianity and had no intention of founding the US on Christian principles. What follows is a large collection of important quotes from some of the most famous and influential Founding Fathers on this subject, which should give you a pretty good indication of what they believed:
From John Adams, contributor to the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, second president of the United States:
• “The government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion.” — Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously approved by the US Senate and signed by President John Adams
• “The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.” — John Adams
• “As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?” — John Adams
• “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.” — John Adams
From Thomas Jefferson, Father of the Declaration of Independence, third president of the United States:
• “Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it should read, ‘a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion’ the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.” — Thomas Jefferson
• “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” — Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Paine, influential writer who inspired American independence from Britain:
• “Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.” ― Thomas Paine
• “As to the ancient historians, from Herodotus to Tacitus, we credit them as far as they relate things probable and credible, and no further: for if we do, we must believe the two miracles which Tacitus relates were performed by Vespasian, that of curing a lame man, and a blind man, in just the same manner as the same things are told of Jesus Christ by his historians. We must also believe the miracles cited by Josephus, that of the sea of Pamphilia opening to let Alexander and his army pass, as is related of the Red Sea in Exodus. These miracles are quite as well authenticated as the Bible miracles, and yet we do not believe them; consequently the degree of evidence necessary to establish our belief of things naturally incredible, whether in the Bible or elsewhere, is far greater than that which obtains our belief to natural and probable things.” ― Thomas Paine
• “Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange believe that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies.” — Thomas Paine
• “It appears that Thomas did not believe the resurrection; and, as they say, would not believe without having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I; and the reason is equally as good for me, and for every other person, as for Thomas.” — Thomas Paine
• “It is a contradiction in terms and ideas, to call anything a revelation that comes to us at second-hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first communication; after this, it is only an account of something which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to him.” ― Thomas Paine
• “Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course. But we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time. It is therefore at least millions to one that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.” ― Thomas Paine
• “That God cannot lie, is no advantage to your argument, because it is no proof that priests cannot, or that the Bible does not.” — Thomas Paine
• “The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun.” — Thomas Paine
• “The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.” ― Thomas Paine
• “Science is the true theology.” — Thomas Paine
• “As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book.” — Thomas Paine
• “That many good men have believed this strange fable [Christianity], and lived very good lives under that belief (for credulity is not a crime) is what I have no doubt of. In the first place, they were educated to believe it, and they would have believed anything else in the same manner. There are also many who have been so enthusiastically enraptured by what they conceived to be the infinite love of God to man, in making a sacrifice of himself, that the vehemence of the idea has forbidden and deterred them from examining into the absurdity and profaneness of the story.” ― Thomas Paine
• “What is it the Bible teaches us?—raping, cruelty, and murder. What is it the New Testament teaches us?—to believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery is called faith.” — Thomas Paine
• “It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.” ― Thomas Paine
• “There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice.” — Thomas Paine
• “The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice.” — Thomas Paine
• “Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.” — Thomas Paine
• “Among the detestable villains that in any period of the world have disgraced the name of man, it is impossible to find a greater than Moses, if this account be true. Here is an order to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and debauch the daughters.” — Thomas Paine
• “It is far better that we admitted a thousand devils to roam at large than that we permitted one such impostor and monster as Moses, Joshua, Samuel, and the Bible prophets, to come with the pretended word of God and have credit among us.” — Thomas Paine
• “Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.” — Thomas Paine
• “All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” ― Thomas Paine
• “Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law.” ― Thomas Paine
George Washington, Commander in Chief of the Continental Army, President of the Constitutional Convention, first president of the United States:
• “If I could now conceive that the general Government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.” — George Washington
• “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.” — George Washington
• “In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.” — George Washington
• “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition.” — George Washington
Other Founding Fathers’ views:
• “I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to [Jesus’] Divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now.” — Benjamin Franklin
• “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.” — Benjamin Franklin
• “I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not.” — Ethan Allen
• “It is contrary to the principles of reason and justice that any should be compelled to contribute to the maintenance of a church with which their consciences will not permit them to join, and from which they can derive no benefit; for remedy whereof, and that equal liberty as well religious as civil, may be universally extended to all the good people of this commonwealth.” — George Mason
• “Every interference of the civil power in regulating opinion, is an impious attempt to take the business of the Deity out of his own hands; and every preference given to any religious denomination, is so far slavery and bigotry.” — Noah Webster
• “In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.” — Samuel Adams
• “No religious doctrine shall be established by law.” — Elbridge Gerry
• “Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.” — Roger Sherman
• “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.” — Charles Pinckney
• “Some very worthy persons, who have not had great advantages for information, have objected against that clause in the constitution which provides, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. They have been afraid that this clause is unfavorable to religion. But my countrymen, the sole purpose and effect of it is to exclude persecution, and to secure to you the important right of religious liberty.” — Oliver Ellsworth
So in summary, most of the Founding Fathers were Unitarians, deists and deistic Christians, and the United States was not founded on Christian principles. So it’s not absurd to claim that the US is a secular nation.
https://www.thoughtco.com/top-founding-fathers-104878
https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214
http://addictinginfo.com/2018/07/30/35-founding-father-quotes-conservative-christians-will-hate/
https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-declaration-of-independence/drafting-the-declaration/
https://constitutioncenter.org/learn/educational-resources/constitution-faqs
https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/why-americas-christian-foundation-is-a-myth
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