My friend, William Arnold, once made an observation about “the rapture” that is worth sharing.
The debate over the timing of the rapture in relationship to the second coming of Christ presupposes that the rapture and the second coming are both events, and then seeks to determine when each event will take place in relationship to the other. Is that a valid presupposition? Does the Bible describe the rapture as an event?
The only clear passage in Scripture that describes a rapturing of the church is 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. Paul wrote:
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
The first thing we should notice is that the word “rapture” does not appear in this passage. In fact the word “rapture” is not found anywhere in Scripture (we get it from the Latin Vulgate). The Greek word translated “caught up” in verse 17 is harpadzo. This word is a verb, not a noun. The importance of this grammatical fact cannot be overstated. Paul is describing an action, not an event. The only event Paul named in this passage is the coming of the Lord (“coming” is from the Greek parousia, which is a noun). The action of being caught up will take place at the event of the coming, but being caught up is not an event in itself capable of being separated from the coming. That’s why William Arnold wrote:
When we realize that Scripture does not speak of the rapture but rather says that at the coming of the Lord we will be raptured (caught up), it sheds new light on the discussion. It is misleading to speak of the rapture and then to ask when the rapture will take place. The Bible only mentions the coming of the Lord and says that when he comes we will be caught up together to meet him. But pre-tribulationists start by talking about the rapture and the second coming as if they were two separate events and then claim that post-tribulationists confuse the two. The fact is, however, that the Bible does not make this distinction. Instead, it uses the word “coming” (parousia) when we would expect to see the word “rapture” if indeed this were a different event.
Since Scripture never speaks of our being raptured as an event, it is absolutely meaningless to ask when the rapture (action) will take place in relationship to the Coming (event) because there is no “the rapture”— only a “be raptured.” I do not oppose the use of the word “rapture” to describe what will happen at the Coming-event, but I do oppose the use of “rapture” as a noun. It is not an event, but a description of what we happen to us at the Coming-event.
I think this little tidbit of knowledge recasts the whole rapture question and makes the post-trib position all the more clear in Scripture. We are looking for the second coming of the Lord—not the rapture—and there can only be one second coming…not two!
For further reading:
- The Rap on the Rapture
- Straight Outta Context #7 – 1 Cor 15:52 – “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye”
Thinking to Believe 
March 29, 2022 at 3:20 am
Yes that’s right, there is one returning when it all takes place. There is always someone to complicate the truth! Point well made.
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March 29, 2022 at 7:12 am
Thank you Jason for covering a great topic!
I believe the believers will be on Earth during antichrist’s reign but will be taken at Jesus second coming, before He pours out the vials and His wrath.
I used to be “pre-trib” but after hearing Irvin Baxter’s teaching on the topic, I was convinced otherwise…..
https://watch.endtime.com/videos/when-will-the-rapture-happen
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March 29, 2022 at 11:19 am
i dont disagree but briefly — there’s 1 event, the Second Coming, that gets split up into 2 events ……… the Second Coming and the Rapture because of the biblical evidence of God protecting people from the Tribulation.
the problem is they mix up God protecting His people from the Tribulation with God protecting some people through the Tribulation.
so there is only the Second Coming after the Tribulation & some people are protected by God in “the wilderness” during the Tribulation.
also this is further complicated with mix ups/confusing events which occur at the Second Coming and events after the millennial reign.
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March 29, 2022 at 6:04 pm
Paul lol, “I don’t disagree but” , then you go on and disagree, one event but then it becomes two events, so….. then not one event!
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March 29, 2022 at 6:24 pm
Paul, the thing is, God’s people have been under tremendous & torturous tribulation continually since the Book of Acts.
Antichrist’s tribulation will not be any different than the Arena’s in Rome, the Dungeons of the Dark Ages, persecution in China & ISIS / Muslim nations where the beheading of Christians are common place.
The only thing about antichrist’s wrath toward Christians is his mark of the beast that he will try to enforce on everyone….but he will not succeed because not everyone will come under his dominion.
What the Believers will NOT be under is God’s wrath when HE finally pours out HIS vials after the 3 1/2 year of antichrist’s reign.
That’s how I see the scriptures and Bro Irvin Baxter really explains it perfectly through scripture.
But he also says that whether you are Pre-Trib or Post-Trib, it is not a salvation issue, the most important thing is to love God and be ready at all times.🙏🏼👍🏼
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March 29, 2022 at 11:11 pm
Take a look at this passage Isaiah 26:19-21.
19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain.
It indicates a pre-tribulation resurrection of believers who must hide in their chambers, i.e. the dwelling places Christ has prepared for them according to John 14:2-3.
2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
In addition, the term second coming is not found in Scripture. There is no basis to assume that Christ coming in the clouds for His Church and Christ coming to the earth to redeem the 144,000 Jews and tread the wine press of God’s wrath (Revelation 14) are contiguous events. See Isaiah 63:1-4.
1 Who is this who comes from Edom, With dyed garments from Bozrah, This One who is glorious in His apparel, Traveling in the greatness of His strength?– “I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.”
2 Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like one who treads in the winepress?
3 “I have trodden the winepress alone, And from the peoples no one was with Me. For I have trodden them in My anger, And trampled them in My fury; Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments, And I have stained all My robes.
4 For the day of vengeance is in My heart, And the year of My redeemed has come.
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March 30, 2022 at 1:12 pm
J gefroth, lol ………… thanks for the chance to clarify …….. im agreeing with this: ” We are looking for the second coming of the Lord—not the rapture—and there can only be one second coming…not two!”
and then gave evidence about the misunderstanding
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March 30, 2022 at 1:18 pm
Elaine, i agree it’s not a salvation issue and have no problem with my brothers and sisters in Christ that believe the Rapture and Second Coming are 2 different events.
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April 19, 2022 at 2:31 pm
Yep. After all, we’re not going to be snatched up to escape Earth. We’ll simply be meeting the bridgegroom halfway on his way down here. The Lamb’s wife will descend from heaven along with the Lamb and together we will enter our new abode, a newly recreated earth.
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April 19, 2022 at 2:42 pm
Hi Paul, I don’t know how to reply directly to you because krazeeboy has the last comment, but let me clarify……..
I DO believe that the rapture and 2nd coming is the SAME even…it’s the 7th Trumpet………kinda like Krazyboy says, only we will not be entering a newly created earth YET.
There has to be God’s wrath (i.e. vials) poured out on all who reject him including antichrist & friends……. and then the 1000 years of peace……then satan is set free for a small amount of time, and after that, he goes to the lake of fire for all eternity….THEN a new heaven and a new earth.
At least that’s how I see it.
The battle of Armageddon is also in there somewhere…..I need to read the scriptures again.
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April 23, 2022 at 2:03 pm
Elaine……….. if there was lots of posts between it can get confusing here there’s not many so it’s clear.
again ………… that’s okay but my interpretation is slightly different. the bride is still on earth — that’s 2 groups=dead members and living members. this differs from the bride in heaven=those that have died prior to the Second Coming.
so to clarify my interpretation with krazeeboi’s ………… im saying Jesus comes down from heaven for His bride which is still on earth. the dead members are changed then the living members are changed then we go up in the sky to meet Jesus as He is returning. so this is the beginning of the millennial reign so it still our earth not the new earth. Jesus wipes out His enemies only a remnant of mortals/Israelites/normal people are left and although the world is a mess it’s still livable. these people marry and have children and are ruled and reigned by Jesus and His bride for 1000 years. meanwhile His bride can come and go to the New city of Jerusalem some say it’s on earth some say it doesnt land on earth until the end of the millennial reign.
again …………. no worries there’s different end time scenarios with biblical evidence for and against and it’s still out of focus and wont be revealed until the appropriate time as the bible says.
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March 8, 2026 at 12:53 pm
Before we dive into the text, let’s get some more context in place first.
What was Paul’s goal here? To comfort the Thessalonians about a misunderstanding they had. Clearly they were expecting the 2nd coming soon, but why did its timing matter considering their misunderstanding?
What covenant were they under?
in Mathew24 Jesus says when you see these signs, run to the hills and he adds “pray it doesn’t come on a sabbath”. Why? Because the old covenant was still in place until Jesus came and destroyed the temple officially ending the old covenant. Therefore the sabbath presents some travel limitations.
So the Thessalonians knew something else was still in play. Any Christian who died before the destruction of the temple still went to “Sleep” in Sheol. So they were afraid those who died after the end of the OC went to heaven and those previous were stuck in Sheol.
One more bit of context. In 1Cor15 Paul says “we will not all sleep but we will all be changed in the blink of an eye.”
We make some assumptions about this – when Paul says “we won’t all sleep”, do we assume those who do sleep all go to sleep at the same time? Of course not, so why do we assume that “change” comes to all of us at the same time? The other thing to remember as we fiscuss this is that change is in “the blink of an eye.” The Greek word translated as blink means “imperceptible amount of time”.
Now contrast that with 1Thes4 where he goes out of his way to draw a distinct time difference. Why?
In this passage Paul uses a tautology (say the same thing 2ways in the same sentence) to emphasis that difference. “We who are ALIVE, who REMAIN, until the coming of the Lord.” Here’s where we make our next assumption. We assume “until” means our being alive ends at this moment. That’s not what that is saying, he is simply defining a line in time and defining what happens before it, then what happens after it. This s why he adds “who remain”, again if this all happens in the blink of an eye, then Paul is making a “a distinction without a difference”. The timing would be imperceptible, so why use a tautology? And then why use that tautology a 3nd time?
The next assumption we make is that he is saying we all go up together. It doesn’t! It says “then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds”. So does it say we will be “caught up together” or does it say once we are caught up we will be together with those who preceded us?
Remember what Paul is trying to do here, he is letting them know how and when they will be together with those who “slept” in Sheol, and notice he just used that tautology again adding “who remain”. Again that would be a pointless distinction. But it is the perfect book end to describe the difference between what happens to those who die before the end of the OC and that after the OC we no longer go down but now we go up.
So in a nutshell we are all raptured at the moment we die at which point we will meet them in the air.
So what happens in the blink of an eye? At first I thought it was our trajectory. Both those in Sheol are taken up, and from now on we are taken up. But I think it actually means the change from perishable to imperishable at the moment we are “caught up”.
One last thing – if the resurrection is about getting our dead bodies back, how does this comfort the Thessalonians? All he would have needed to say is they will be with you in heaven!” End of explanation. If it’s about an escape plan I suggest you read Deut 32:8,9 then Psalm 82 and see what god does to them for failing to disciple their nations, it’s not an escape plan. For me this is what makes Dispensational belief heretical. You not only teach that Christs commission to disciple the nations is not achievable but that in Psalm 82, God sentenced them to death for their failure, then takes their inheritance and gives it to Jesus for him to disciple them. Jesus says here’s how I am going to succeed where they failed – I’m going to make you CoHeirs, give you the gospel and you’re going to disciple the nations but you wanna say Jesus doesn’t do any better the the (unbegotten) sons, but then turned around and changed the goal to intentional failure and we get a rapture ride to safety for our failure.
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