Those who reject dualism (the view that man is made up of two kinds of substances: physical and immaterial) often cite the “interaction problem” as an argument against the view. Stated simplistically, the interaction problem is to explain how an immaterial entity such as a mind/soul could causally interact with material entities. One envisions the Hollywood movies in which a ghost is desperately trying to pick up a beverage or kiss someone to no avail. Try as he might, he cannot connect his immaterial self to the material world to affect it in any way (unless you are Patrick Swayze!). Many monists think the interaction problem alone is sufficient to dismiss dualism as a possibility.
Such an approach to the question seems wrongheaded, however. One should not look at the queerness of mind-body interaction and immediately conclude that the mind cannot exist independent of the brain. One must first evaluate the evidence for the existence of such an entity. If there are good, independent reasons to think the mind is not an immaterial entity—but can be reduced to the brain or arise from material processes—then the interaction problem could serve as further confirmation that there is no soul. But if there are good reasons to think the mind is an immaterial entity separate from the brain, then the interaction problem—while difficult or even impossible to explain—is insufficient to overturn the evidence that the mind is immaterial. While we may not know how the mind interacts with the material world, we know the two entities do exist, and do interact with each other. One need not explain how something occurs to know that it occurs. We may forever be ignorant of how the mind and body relate to each other, but we have direct awareness and experience of the fact that they do.
To say “Because I cannot conceive of a way in which the soul could causally interact with the physical realm, the soul cannot exist” is like saying “Because I cannot conceive of a means by which voices can be transported thousands of miles in a split there can be no such things as telecommunication.” But we know telecommunication is possible because we use it all the time. We know phones exist! We do not need to know how telecommunication works to know that it works. Likewise, all of us have an immediate intuition that we are not identical to our bodies. Any inability I may have to understand or explain the interaction of my self with my body does not count against the fact that I have a self that is distinct from and interacts with my body.
While there may be good reasons to reject dualism, the interaction problem is not one of them. Indeed, some theologians and philosophers have proposed solutions to the problem. Whether those solutions are sound or not can be debated, but what should not be debatable is the means by which we determine if the mind exists. And as a matter of method, our answer to the how question must be secondary to the evidence for the what question. If there is good reason to believe the mind is immaterial, then we should do so even if we do not know how the mind interacts causally with the material world.
March 22, 2012 at 5:44 am
Jason,
Very good post. I believe you have touched upon an extremely profound point. You stated “…all of us have an immediate intuition that we are not identical to our bodies.”
I do not think the atheists who read your posts will quite agree. Most atheists take a materialist point of view – that we are only a collection of atoms that have somehow formed into these amazing bodies.
However, I completely agree with you – 100%. We do know that “we” are not identical to our bodies. I know that intuitively, just as you state, although the atheist will quickly dismiss any argument based upon intuition.
I would add the following to your point: If one loses a finger, is he still 100% the person he was before? My answer is, of course he is. Whatever inside him makes him who he is – is still 100% there. What if he loses both arms and both legs? Is he still 100% the same man? Yes he is. What about a soldier who loses part of his mind do to a traumatic brain injury? He may act differently, but inside, is he still 100% who he was before the injury? Yes he is. Ask him. My point is that our material bodies are not who we are.
And, another point. Our souls must be much more complicated than our bodies. God certainly values them infinitely more than our bodies. He designed our bodies as simply throw away containers. They have no real value, other than as temporary vessels that house our souls.
Randy
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March 23, 2012 at 11:48 am
My philosophy is, every partical of the universe is all just 1 thing. It DOEST matter if something is part of the imagention, the unseen realm or the material world, its connected to, & is only 1 thing. The light we see with are eyes closed, the sounds we hear without are ears & the feelings we feel without our skin all part of this one thing. Now for how that realates to this post. In the material realm (the world) are brain is the tool of are body that makes us aware of our presents in the universe. We our bound to our mind & body by laws of the universe, that separate us from the full on or whole univeresal experience.
What are we? We are spirtual beings (made of sound light & feelings) having a human experience.
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March 25, 2012 at 9:43 am
Reblogged this on live4life201 and commented:
live4life201 Says:
March 23, 2012 at 11:48 am
My philosophy is, every partical of the universe is all just 1 thing. It DOEST matter if something is part of the imagention, the unseen realm or the material world, its connected to, & is only 1 thing. The light we see with are eyes closed, the sounds we hear without are ears & the feelings we feel without our skin all part of this one thing. Now for how that realates to this post. In the material realm (the world) are brain is the tool of are body that makes us aware of our presents in the universe. We our bound to our mind & body by laws of the universe, that separate us from the full on or whole univeresal experience.
What are we? We are spirtual beings (made of sound light & feelings) having a human experience.
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May 16, 2012 at 5:08 am
LOSE A FINGER?! WE MOLT EVERY SEVEN DAYS
This Stanford web: http://stemcell.stanford.edu/research/
States that… “Every one of us completely regenerates our own skin every 7 days. A cut heals itself and disappears in a week or two. Every single cell in our skeleton is replaced every 7 years.”
I promptly e-mailed them (reply waiting) then; “why don’t tattoos fad away very quickly?”
Rather than the dualism (in specific), I’ve been twisted over these many years to ponder just what it is that is material? At the atomic level all matter is about 99.99% empty space (or ‘stuff’ that is non-material or of abstract nature). Then there are all the value concepts: integrity, love, numbers, moral attributes etc. Then too there is the quantum foam ‘thingy’. Then there is the age old discussion of; “why is there something rather than nothing?” Then there are: forces, energy, time, entropy, space, and matter (again).
Perhaps, we are spiritual entities on a journey in which we need to travel in these Earthsuits (a Star Trek episode once had earthlings called: “ugly bags of mostly water”) and we have somehow dropped off our communications link with Home-Base. We got it frustrated and now our spiritual self is infused with this worldly ‘bag’ and slowly is being mind-numbed to this existence as ‘all-there-is-or-ever-was-or-every-will-be (Sagan chant)…in other words we could turn into a materialist and not know our real purpose or origin. But, what is conscience, what is love, what is curiosity? Are other creatures curious…Seagulls, bears, and scorpions? Naaaa! Then why us? What about this: Our spirit once knew our Home (we were there–spiritually), but the communications-link got poisoned/damaged (tainting us into just materialists), but our frustrated spirit (trapped inside these bags) squirms to know the truth and so we have this insatiable curiosity. And guess who (what condition) seems best to satisfy that? Why seek knowledge about black holes and what’s on the back side of the moon? We are not just meat robots; we are conscious observers and moral agents knowing right from wrong (immediately and intuitively). We are a weird ‘bag’ or bug and this is not our home!
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February 16, 2014 at 5:54 pm
The problem with this article is that it does not attempt to solve the interaction problem, you simply state “well we don’t know what causes interaction but that doesn’t mean there is no solution.” The issue is is that until you find a solution to this problem there is no reason to accept dualism. There is no scientific proof that our minds exist separate from our body, that our mind is not just a result of our brain function. I agree that the interaction problem ALONE cannot be grounds for dismissing dualism, but when you add onto the fact that there is little real scientific evidence for a immaterial mind, one must reject dualism until these problems are overcome.
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February 20, 2014 at 12:41 am
Ethan,
Even if there was no scientific evidence for dualism, there is strong philosophical evidence for dualism. The simple fact of the matter is that mental properties cannot be reduced to physical properties. There are properties that belong to the mind that cannot be ascribed to the brain. Given the law of the Indiscernability of idendicals, monism must be false and dualism true. Having said that, there is scientific evidence for dualism as well. Check out The Spiritual Brain for such evidence.
Jason
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March 20, 2017 at 4:39 am
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