While I have already written an assessment of Stephen Law’s evil god challenge, after listening to Law engage in an informal debate on the topic with Glenn Peoples on Unbelievable, I have a few more observations to make.
Law seems to take as his starting point the idea that people reject the existence of an evil God based on the empirical evidence: there is simply too much good in the world for an evil god to exist. Then he reasons that if the presence of good in the world makes the existence of an evil God absurd, people should also recognize that the presence of evil in the world makes the existence of a good God equally absurd. The success of his argument depends on three assumptions:
(1) Empirical evidence is valid for determining the moral nature of God
(2) Empirical evidence is valid for determining whether God exists
(3) The empirical evidence is symmetrical with respect to good and evil
Empirical evidence is valid for determining the moral nature of God
With respect to (1), while it may be true as a matter of fact that many people who reject the existence of an evil god do so on the basis of empirical data, and that empirical data would equally rule out the existence of a good God if applied consistently, Law’s symmetrical argument falls apart the moment one rejects empirical evidence as a legitimate or sufficient basis for determining the nature of God. Arguably, basing one’s view of God’s moral nature on the amount of evil or good in the world is simply bad reasoning. Even Law admits this, while still maintaining that the empirical data is informative about what God is not like.[1] Ironically, then, Law’s argument for the absurdity of the existence of a good God based on the absurdity of the existence of an evil god can only be made if one accepts a faulty method for determining the nature of God. At best Law’s symmetry argument will show theists why they should not make judgments about God’s moral nature based on empirical data. It does nothing to demonstrate that the existence of a good God is absurd. His argument is rhetorically effective only for those who falsely think empirical data is a good way to determine God’s moral nature.
Empirical evidence is valid for determining whether God exists
With regard to (2), the only reason to think the existence/amount of evil makes the existence of a good God absurd or the existence/amount of good makes the existence of an evil god absurd is if there is no theodicy that can explain the tension between the moral qualities we find in the world and God’s nature. But Law implicitly admits that there is a theodicy that can account for the tension when he applies the theist’s “morally sufficient reason” (MSR) theodicy to his evil god, arguing that the same theodicy could be used to support the existence of an evil god: an evil god could have a morally sufficient reason for permitting all of the good in the world in the same way that a good God could have a morally sufficient reason for permitting all of the evil in the world. While he does not think there is an evil god, he obviously thinks the MSR theodicy successfully shows that such a god could be compatible with a world suffused with moral qualities that are contrary to his nature.[2] The fact that a successful theodicy can be offered to explain why a god of a particular nature would allow a world to exist that contains contrary moral qualities demonstrates that our intuitions about the improbability of the existence of a good or evil god based on empirical evidence alone are misguided.[3]
The empirical evidence is symmetrical with respect to good and evil
As for (3), even if empirical data was legitimate and sufficient for determining the moral nature of God, one could argue that the evidence is not symmetrical because there is more good in the world than evil, and the amount of goodness in the world can only be explained by the existence of a good God.
The fact remains that empirical data is not sufficient to determine the existence and/or nature of God. While we might appeal to all the good in the world in support of the existence of a good God, we have independent reasons to think God exists and that He is good. For example, our conscience reveals both the existence of a moral law giver as well as His nature. Moral laws are unlike other laws in that they come equipped with an internal motivation to keep them. That motivation works in a one-sided direction toward good and away from evil. This aspect of conscience is informative, telling us something about the moral nature of the moral law giver: He is good.
[1]Law claims that empirical evidence cannot be used to establish what kind of God does exist, but it is can be useful for eliminating certain conceptions of god as impossibilities. Just as we intuitively recognize that an evil god cannot exist based on all of the good in the world, we should also recognize that a good God cannot exist based on all of the evil in the world. But to even say that we can use empirical observations to rule out certain conceptions of God requires that one believe empirical observations are informative about the nature of God. If they are informative about the nature of God, then it seems arbitrary to say empirical evidence can inform us about what God is not like, but cannot inform us of what He is like.
[2]Law claims that since theodicies can be used to support an evil and a good God, it shows they are useless. But clearly this is an incorrect assessment. While theodicies are not useful for telling you whether God is good or evil, they are obviously useful for demonstrating that there is no logical incompatibility between a God of a certain moral nature and a world suffused with examples of a contrary moral character.
[3]It should also be pointed out that even if the empirical evidence counts against both the existence of a good God and an evil god, it does rule out the existence of God altogether because God’s nature could be amoral.
June 25, 2012 at 10:28 am
Per usual, I already have a video on this topic. 😉
The video describes what evidence we might see if an ultimate cruel, depraved God exists and how that compares with what we observe.
The bottom line is: A truly evil God would WANT to create a universe with a lot of good in it, specifically so people could learn about love and beauty…so when they die they could suffer an eternity in hell haunted by the memories of what they had but never will again, and knowing that those they came to love in life are suffering just as severely. True evil isn’t just about making people suffer, but maximizing that suffering by giving them hope and things they care about deeply…and then taking it all away.
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June 25, 2012 at 10:46 am
What does that have to do with my post? And how do you know the mind of god?
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June 25, 2012 at 11:32 am
What does my video have to do with your post? It’s a refutation of the claim that empirical evidence indicates God is good, by showing you how the same sorts of observations indicate God is evil. I don’t claim to know the mind of God. The point is, the claim that good exists is not evidence that God is good, since goodness can be a tool for evil. Theists often use the same logic to explain why evil exists: because it can be a tool for good.
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June 25, 2012 at 11:45 am
That’s precisely why I asked you what your video has to do with my post since my post is critical of the assumption that we can judge the moral quality of God by empirical evidence. That is not why theists think God is good.
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June 25, 2012 at 11:56 am
Yes, I was providing evidence against the claim of the article. It’s okay if I support your position, isn’t it. 😉
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June 25, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Sure, I support you supporting me. I guess I’m a bit confused, however, since it appeared your video was to contradict the conclusion of my post in support of Law’s evil god contention.
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June 25, 2012 at 2:48 pm
I think he’s missing the thrust of your argument, which is that the empirical evidence is not determinate either way. Is that correct, Jason?
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June 25, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Correct, J.W. Empirical evidence is interesting, but it is not informative about the moral nature of God. Christians have other reasons for thinking God is good rather than evil.
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June 25, 2012 at 5:45 pm
Sure, I conclude that the literal God of the Bible is evil, but I agree with you that you can’t use empirical data to conclude God’s morality.
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June 27, 2012 at 10:09 am
There is no way to know if God exists, or what moral character he is. I agree that empirical evidence cannot be used to judge if God exists or not, but I also believe that there is no way to know if God exists, or what his nature is. God is unknowable in this sense. Everything used to reason that a God exists is individually based assumptions. Either you believe or you don’t, but it will never be proven either way.
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June 27, 2012 at 10:21 am
Jason,
Why think that there is no way to know if God exists? What is your argument for that position?
Jason
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June 28, 2012 at 10:09 am
Jason (not Dulle), there is a way to know God exists and what He is like.
It has been revealed to us by revelation in the scriptures. You can choose to believe what the scriptures say are true or not. That’s all we got and really how much more do you need if it’s written in a book for us to read !
I am not saying the sum total of all of God’s wisdom and all the secrets of the universe are in there, but there is enough to know that :
a) God exists
b) God is good because of what Christ did for us
c) There is HOPE !
Nobody is going to be able to give us the “proof” that we’re looking for, Christian or not. We are all the same and we all have doubts, even believers at times. Life is hard enough and the fact is, we need help, we need God !
Jason, all the best to you. Don’t give up, the truth is right in front of you……..
Naz
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March 31, 2017 at 10:23 am
Naz:
Your a poet and don’t know it.
That’s all we got,
How much more do you need,
If it’s written in a book
For us to read.
If you believe the magicians, sorcerers and miracle makers in the book being given revelation from the Gods of their own imaginative creations just because they are the religious gurus and self appointed messengers of the Gods as minister-ordained, oath taking ceremonies by taking courses at the Seminaries of the Sons of the Prophets…gee, what more does one need, eh Naz? Other than a full-fledged Scribe-notarized Certificate authenticating your prophetsorial status in the Church.
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